Why I always load my own ammo

[DaveT]

So exactly what size is that group in the first pic Dave?

Its somewhat an act of generosity to call it a group and that was my original dilemma in setting a zero....but getting past that.......

 

1. If we take the extreme left / right shots its 3.5 moa.
2. If we take the 4 shots on the left and call the other two 'fliers' then its 2.5 moa.

There was a blustery wind BUT the 2nd target was shot in same conditions.

 

Either way GGG clearly shoots within its stated spec even with my limited time on an AR......can't get away from that.

[bradders]

Confidence is everything in shooting, especially competitively.

 

I get asked regularly "how do you know when your barrel is shot out?"

Answer, "when you think it is"

If you have any doubts then do what you can to eliminate them, whether that's ammo, barrel, scope and so on.

 

However as I was trying to say, well actually I did say. is if you don't think it matters then it doesn't.

 

Sure home loaded ammo is better, and if you can make the time to prep and make it in the quantities some of us shoot then that's fine.

However if you can't make the time and/or can't be bothered and find it more convenient to just grab a couple of boxes of whatever you have to hand, then that's fine too, because if you do just grab 100rds or GGG/RUAG/RG/RWS/LC and do your part on the day, you could very well win the match.

 

And this has been proved over and over again

[DaveT]

Bradders I will gratefully soak up any and all direct advice that you might offer me on the CSR intro day....especially on positional shooting.

 

Look forward to seeing you there.

[gbal]

Mark,just one slight caution to your 'confidence is all'-it has to be justifiable confidence,just belief won't really overcome the built in disadvantages eg in bullet dispersal from very worn/poor ammo/rifle. It may weell be relatively defensible that a lackof confidence will lower performance,even of a decent rig,but the corollary is not true- beief alone isn't enough-it is,"neccessary but not sufficient".

 

What is the scoring in the interesting data from Sunday's shoot? Is it 5 points for a bull that is......how big?

 

There does not seem to be any reliable big statistical differences,though the bipod/ay optic is probably better,as you say.I don't think ammo type can be disentangled,as the numbers are quite small.

 

As a psychologist,used to ceiling effects-nearly everone gets high scores (or floor effects-they all get low ones!)-this is usually saying that the test is not sensitive enough to sort out any differences that MIGHT be there.Put simplistically,everyone hits the barn door,with everything shot-not a convincing accuracy rest,though it can eliminate extreme inaccuracy,as here-fig 11 is about 22x17. I do note that this was fairly rapid shooting with 10 shots in 60 secs,so not 'optimal ' accuracy probably.

 

Test for precision/accuracy would be a much smaller bull/scoring rings,though I appreciate you can't do that in a CSR competition,which does give modest sample sizes,which a few rifles can't do. Nor do competitors need this info.

Of course,this comment has to be weighed in the knowledge of what the bull size was,......

 

Whatever,there is reasonable support for the claim that GGG provides good enough ammo for this competition,and nothing shot was significantly better.( especially if you take a view that one,even two point(s) is within normal variance,for each shooter.

 

So,thanks-interesting indeed,just what was the bull size and what did a bull score in points would make it more meaningful for those not au fait with this comp.

 

gbaal

[bradders]

240mm, scoring is 5 & 4

[John MH]

If you hit every target and get a scoring shot you will do well, if you miss the target you will not do well. If your ammo and rifle combination can consistently hold 4 MOA and you don't miss any of the figure targets so score all 5s and 4s you will probably do very well.

[gbal]

Mark,and John;thanks,that pretty well nails it,bull is 24 cm,just an inch less than a 10 inch gong,scoring 5 points,and presumably the 4 ring is at least 12 inches.So 4moa shooting will give a score of 45+/-,depending on the proportion of 5 and 4s. 10 in 60 secs,prone ,either mag rest,4.5 scope Or bipod and unlimited scope.Not bad going at all.Presumably there could be 'three position '/similar stages too-sort of (mini) "across the course".

 

All useful indeed for setting up 'practice' or local competitions,broadly comparable to 'official' comps.

 

And interesting to have a quantified idea of the skills involved-there really is no sensible way to compare different disciplines,other than to try them and see for yourself (practice effects of course) but you get the idea well enough. It can only help understanding and mutual respect,and hopefully widened participation.

 

gbal

[John MH]

Smallest 5 ring is the Fig 14 at 100mm, this is only routinely shot at mid range standing at 100 yards and prone at 200 yards, every other target has larger scoring rings and at 400 and 500 yards the 5 ring is 300mm.

 

On the Precision sharp and snap shooting matches the smaller targets are used at greater distance, ie a Fig 14 at 600 yards so it's 100mm 5 ring is well under 1 MOA.

[gbal]

Smallest 5 ring is the Fig 14 at 100mm, this is only routinely shot at mid range standing at 100 yards and prone at 200 yards, every other target has larger scoring rings and at 400 and 500 yards the 5 ring is 300mm.

On the Precision sharp and snap shooting matches the smaller targets are used at greater distance, ie a Fig 14 at 600 yards so it's 100mm 5 ring is well under 1 MOA.

OK....I can see why the 6XC class is popular.....GGG /223 is struggling.

 

g

[bradders]

OK....I can see why the 6XC class is popular.....GGG /223 is struggling.

 

g

There is no 6XC class

[baldie]

What newcomers to the discipline and indeed people who have never shot it , fail to grasp, is that general fitness, and an ability to shoot in several other positions other than flat on your belly behind a bipod....is fairly crucial.

 

Its a discipline that will will rapidly show up the ones who simply cannot shoot. No amount of top gear can make up for a lack of general rifleman skill.

 

People then quite quickly start to blame the ammo.

 

Average csr shooters will never better themselves by hand loading, if the basics in every position are not there.

 

I would estimate that only the top 10% in each class can tell the difference, or more importantly, can make use of it to win.

[gbal]

There is no 6XC class

There is in my book/range - FIG 14 100mm 5 ring at 600y is a demanding shot ( sub moa) and it's snaps too....as an atheist,I don't do spray and pray;and that seems well out of the GGG accuracy envelope specs...

 

I'd just be more.... err ...... confident if the rifle /ammo was intrinsically capable of making the shot....if it isn't,what would a hit mean....or a miss....?

 

 

So what are the 6XC class for ?

 

Thanks,Dave about what I thought-pigeon shooting isn't driven grouse,or olympic trap either.

 

gbal

[John MH]

In the Matches I run there are routinely three classes .308/7.62, .223/5.56 and Wildcat (anything at isn't one of the other two). Wildcat scores have been higher but only marginally and to date the .260 has a slight edge on the 6XC and 6.5x47 but it's a statisically small sample so hard to say definitively which one is better.

[DaveT]

What newcomers to the discipline and indeed people who have never shot it , fail to grasp, is that general fitness, and an ability to shoot in several other positions other than flat on your belly behind a bipod....is fairly crucial.

 

Its a discipline that will will rapidly show up the ones who simply cannot shoot. No amount of top gear can make up for a lack of general rifleman skill.

 

People then quite quickly start to blame the ammo.

 

Average csr shooters will never better themselves by hand loading, if the basics in every position are not there.

 

I would estimate that only the top 10% in each class can tell the difference, or more importantly, can make use of it to win.

''Average csr shooters will never better themselves by hand loading, if the basics in every position are not there.''

 

Daves quote agreed in full!!!.......Well I have truly 'blown' the ammo excuse (bugger) so I had better improve at positional shooting in short order!