bradders Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 do you have an issue with me ? (if you do by the way then may I respectfully suggest that PM is a better media) somebody asked what Maggie would do and I made reference to her handling of the falklands conflict. I'm pretty certain I could research and find jihadi (if you mean islamic?) islands but I'm unsure what relevance that would have to this discussion? No, not at all. I'm sorry if you feel that way, I wasn't setting out to offend, but merely pointing towards the futility of comparing anything to a "what would Maggie do" situation, as she would've done nothing any differently to how other leaders react to a non National threat (irregular forces), ands I'm sure a lot of people look back on her fondly through their Conservative blue tinted glasses. It's as bad as saying "all this Jihad stuff wouldn't be happening if Ronnie & Reggie were still around" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 No, not at all. I'm sorry if you feel that way, I wasn't setting out to offend, but merely pointing towards the futility of comparing anything to a "what would Maggie do" situation, as she would've done nothing any differently to how other leaders react to a non National threat (irregular forces), ands I'm sure a lot of people look back on her fondly through their Conservative blue tinted glasses. It's as bad as saying "all this Jihad stuff wouldn't be happening if Ronnie & Reggie were still around" no need to be sorry I'm a big boy and can take a little stick but find it's best to ask outright if there is an issue before anything escalates. maybe the other posters question should have been phrased 'what would a political leader with some backbone do?' anyway , good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzar15 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 For myself, I weary of all the conflict and strife in the world today....it would seem that over the centuries we have not learned much. I do believe however that we are beyond the point where turning the other cheek will serve any useful purpose with theses jihadi types other than they see our relative inactivity as weakness and be further enthused in their murderous exploits. We have the resources ,technology and a growing will to return these types to the dark age from whence they came. Why the hell not give them a massive dose of what is like to be on the receiving end until they desist either because they are all gone or they have the fanaticism beaten out of them. Gloves off please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 For myself, I weary of all the conflict and strife in the world today....it would seem that over the centuries we have not learned much. I do believe however that we are beyond the point where turning the other cheek will serve any useful purpose with theses jihadi types other than they see our relative inactivity as weakness and be further enthused in their murderous exploits. We have the resources ,technology and a growing will to return these types to the dark age from whence they came. Why the hell not give them a massive dose of what is like to be on the receiving end until they desist either because they are all gone or they have the fanaticism beaten out of them. Gloves off please. You can't simply bomb a race of people into oblivion because of there beliefs especially when you have left the immigration door wide open and allowed them to set up there own communities In your own country just look at Birmingham and areas of London for instance. As soon as anyone tries to speak out about it they are branded a racist or islamaphobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds1 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 The problem the UK faces is that predictions show if current birth rates are sustained by the year 2050 the UK will have a muslim majority.........and its the same for most of Europe..........worrying. I think already Mohammed is the most common name (replacing John) and curry the most common food (replacing fish and chips) ........just waiting for a muslim Prime Minister. http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3770/the_islamic_future_of_britain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzar15 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Islam is not a race it is an idealogy . Not condoning or wanting to eradicate all believers, there should be a place for us all on this planet. What I would like to see for starters is to get the motor running and kick off big time on Isis initially ,followed by Al queda, Procol Harum (or whatever they are called) and any little bunch of nasties that raise their heads above the parapet. Continue in pest control mode for a few years and see how they get the message. Absolute zero tolerance on jihadis and their mates financiers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Islam is not a race it is an idealogy . Not condoning or wanting to eradicate all believers, there should be a place for us all on this planet. What I would like to see for starters is to get the motor running and kick off big time on Isis initially ,followed by Al queda, Procol Harum (or whatever they are called) and any little bunch of nasties that raise their heads above the parapet. Continue in pest control mode for a few years and see how they get the message. Absolute zero tolerance on jihadis and their mates financiers etc. That's what multiculturalism gives us Im just glad I won't be around to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stacka Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Islam is not a race it is an idealogy . Not condoning or wanting to eradicate all believers, there should be a place for us all on this planet. What I would like to see for starters is to get the motor running and kick off big time on Isis initially ,followed by Al queda, Procol Harum (or whatever they are called) and any little bunch of nasties that raise their heads above the parapet. Continue in pest control mode for a few years and see how they get the message. Absolute zero tolerance on jihadis and their mates financiers etc. Iv had the privilege in working with all types.....and have been known to do a bit of pest control in my times. It's by far more complicated that just blaming Islam, or whatever. ISIS and Boko Haram and the other splinters groups (there are a lot trust me) are more about selling their true gains off as religious ideas. In fact most part of it is for the top shed to become even richer. Like I said it's lots more complicated than most people understand, and please don't take that as patronising. But it's not black and white. It is simply impossible to mitigate against what's happened in Paris, or where ever in the world. ISIS isn't military outfit, they have no bases, they have no infrastructure....they succeed on using Islam as a scape goat for murder, and domination of ill educated villages in far eastern countries. I'll end this by saying, more is going on than you think. The government and infact the military is doing a heck of a lot. And it's not publicised because the public won't stomach it, because they think they know better. In essence, don't worry....everything that can be done is being done. Please trust me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 30,000 troops in N Ireland had very little effect The reason for that was entirely down to ROE. The assertion that you can't kill an insurgency is a false truism - and it was proved to be wrong by McChrystal in Iraq: Networks to defeat networks and Kill 'em faster than they can regenerate. AQ in Iraq were destroyed. Given the same free hand, the insurgency in your neck of the woods could, at any point from about 1980, have been cleaned up permanently in less than a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Anyway, My point in this thread was the Brit Press are all: "You'll never defeat the freedom of speech: Je Suis Charlie etc" And then wimp out of publishing a single Charlie cartoon. Not exactly 'I am Charlie'. Thus, the British press have given in to, and been censored by, the terrorists - which is cowardly. The front pages of today's papers -all of them- should have all been the 'offensive' cartoon. That is freedom of speech: The right to offend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I swore I wouldn't go political on this forum but here it is.... If there was a line to be crossed by this I would think them sawing Danny Pearls head off in Pakistan would have been it. Fact is, political correctness (and the progressive/moral equivalent crowd) will eventually lead to downfall off all of our once great countries. I don't presume to know how it is in the UK, but we are losing our national identity here. We are pissing away the ruggedness, drive and fortitude that built this country, which I served and still love, warts and all. It's not too late to stop the madness. We should start by calling things as they are, regardless if someone gets their feeling hurt. Stop with participation trophies and let's get back to raising little boys to be men,and let us let men take care of business when the need arises. It sucks that France got hit, but I would suspect this kind of stuff is going to continue until the point that all the western countries will have Israeli style security. Here's my US mate's response to those comments: 284Shooter has it spot on - that's def the situation here but most realize it must get worse before the rebound happens. What do you expect after decades of the PC crowd's soft, sheltered life, coasting on the sacrifices and labors of the hardier generations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missed Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 The reason for that was entirely down to ROE. The assertion that you can't kill an insurgency is a false truism - and it was proved to be wrong by McChrystal in Iraq: Networks to defeat networks and Kill 'em faster than they can regenerate. AQ in Iraq were destroyed. Given the same free hand, the insurgency in your neck of the woods could, at any point from about 1980, have been cleaned up permanently in less than a week. Nail on head. What most are aware of is that we had all but defeated the opposition and could have wrapped them up at any time had the politico changed the ROE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missed Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Busy year ahead for many Some gentlemen have been very, very busy on behalf of the British population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 What do you expect after decades of the PC crowd's soft, sheltered life, coasting on the sacrifices and labors of the hardier generations? Great soundbite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSG Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 As I spend most of my time in PC soup I though this was appropriate: Men ought either to be indulged or utterly destroyed, for if you merely offend them they take vengeance, but if you injure them greatly they are unable to retaliate, so that the injury done to a man ought to be such that vengeance cannot be feared. Niccolo Machiavelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Unfortunately we need to get used to this, I suspect that within 100 years the UK will be another muslim state and sharia law will be practised as the norm because we are run by a bunch of spineless PC cowards +1! And without a doubt it WILL happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggy Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Not publishing something because someone may be 'offended'?!? .......that's a description of the end of the right to free speech, the end to one of the cornerstones of democracy. Well I for one am offended by the idea of paedophilic pornography. Do we believe that paedophiles should have the freedom of speech to publish freely? Like it or not, democratic society sets limits on freedom of speech. But it should come from reasoned debate, never from the barrel of an AK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Well I for one am offended by the idea of paedophilic pornography. Do we believe that paedophiles should have the freedom of speech to publish freely? Like it or not, democratic society sets limits on freedom of speech. What a silly thing to say. Your example is of something that's, quite rightly, illegal. Anything legal should be publishable: Legality is the boundary. Causing 'offence' is not illegal. That's what free speech is. Hypothetical statement: "I think all civil servants are work-avoiding, lazy problem finders" Offensive statement? Probably to many civil servants, but there'll be many who would agree and find it a totally inoffensive representation of their opinion Illegal Statement? No Should the statement be censored, in order that we don't offend any civil servants? No. That's free speech - unless you're proposing that legal and non-inciteful opinions that you don't agree with, or find 'offensive', should be censored. But of course, that would be the end of democracy. Snuffing free speech about Islam was exactly what these jihadists sought to achieve; and our press - through their weak fear- have complicitly facilitated that snuffing. Let's not get silly now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggy Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Tell you what, let's talk about accurate rifles instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 As the lights went out on the Eifel tower,I did wonder if,instead,emblazoning the Parisian sky with huge electronic cartoons that some would find offensive,would make the city a safer or better place. Je crois que non.Rights have Responsibilities,too. The pen is mightier than the sword;and it was good to see the parisian press and public, at least, using that imagery,tendence liberty,egality,fraternity. The pen may not always have the immediate impact of the sword,but it's ultimate power derives from its engaging with the mutual advantages of the minds,not the one way punishments of the bodies. (I should perhaps just add that I am atheist,francophilic,and think PC stands for Police Constable.) 'meh bien,amis georges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hope you're both watching Question Time. Might edumacate you on the 'right to offend and be offended' being fundamental to freedom of speech (within the Law). Cross-panel agreement that the papers 'bottled it' by not publishing the cartoons. Cross panel condemnation of the BBC issuing an internal missive not to show Hebdo cartoons or any imagery of Mohammed Cross panel agreement that people's behaviour on the subject of Islam and 'Islamic satire' is now being driven by fear. Hope you held similarly strong views against Life of Brian on behalf of Christians - but then again, that wasn't a fear-driven debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finman Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 You know, BD, I'm fully with you...one thing bugs me though: of the 12 shot in France, 2 were police officers who were doing their job, protecting the journalists from the threats they've received. Did they fall in the fight for free speech and the right to democracy? I wonder what their families think... Transposing the French affair to a similar in the UK whereupon the BBC or The Guardian or the Sun or whoever, posts a picture or a commentary that offends these idiots and as a result they have to be protected 24/7...then a bomb or an armed attack takes place and others get killed or injured as the result of the actions of some...others than those who actually took the decision to publish said offensive pieces.... Who feels responsible? Can one hide behind the moral high ground of "right to free speech" on the back of others' lives? And lest not forget that "free speech" is a rather superficial tenet, that comes to the fore only when it serves a purpose...as I'm sure those who remember Dr. David Kelly and his fate (and similar cases) may chose to reflect upon Let's best talk rifles.... Best wishes Finman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
284Shooter Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I wonder if those French cops would be alive if they could have fought back? I wonder if they could have stopped the attack, or slowed it to allow some backup? Maybe injured one so the hundreds of cops risking their lives to find them now has a better lead. The cops weren't given chance. They were dead the minute the illegally armed men got out of the mini-car. They died because their PC leadership believes if authority isn't threatening than everyone will just talk it out. They died because this human debris has no respect for life,liberty or freedom. Criminally ignorant. Enough to go around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yup. My takeaway from this is summarised by this great soundbite. What do you expect after decades of the PC crowd's soft, sheltered life, coasting on the sacrifices and labors of the hardier generations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Let's best talk rifles.... Yup. You're right. There's little more to be said. How on earth did we let our soft 'done-nothing-real' liberal PC underbelly steer us into this situation? Our forefathers would weep Last night's Question Time is worth a watch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04xtl6z/question-time-08012015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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