Redshift Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 No doubt a simple question for you guys, but I've always wondered, Why don't people build quality rifles on the browning actions? I've never had one or really even looked at one, you just never see a target/ quality hunting rifle using the action. Redshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged 77 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Lack of aftermarket parts such as stocks I think is the main reason. Good action with a 60 deg bolt lift and a nice floor plate / detachable mag system on the A-bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyt Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Most factory rifles are cast action receiver rather than machined from a single billet of steel. The tolerance level vary much more from action to action . Plus the resale value is never the same as a purpose made custom action . When you buy a custom action for a build it comes with certain guarantees from the people who have made them ,Bat,Stolle,Nasika,Borden and so on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orka Akinse Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 An interesting point Danny, what assurances/guarantee's do they give? Are they worth anything? I recall (albeit some years ago) Shilen wouldn't guarantee a tube or its accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 It's a fair question Redshift but, gunsmiths build what they are asked to build or what they know will sell if they do a 'chance' build. As we often see on UKV, custom rifles built on factory actions cost almost as much to build but that value can't be recovered when selling secondhand. A rifle built around a custom action will (should) be a guaranteed performer and will hold its value much better. Also, most custom rifle buyers will want a decent trigger - does anyone make one to fit a Browning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyt Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 The guarantee the custom action builders give are the inbuilt tolerance of there products from action to action , as a example I had a second hand stolle action through my workshop which would date back ten years from Kelblys sale to the UK I sold the 6mm Br barrel off very cheap to a forum member who had a brand new stolle action . He screwed the barrel to his brand new action and the chamber off the Ten year old barrel head spaced perfectly . This is as good as you will get . A Factory keeping a tolerance within 2' thousandths over hundreds of action for Ten years . That is a custom action . Ps not only did this barrel head space it shot like a hammer at long range by that I mean 800 yards plus I also bought a magnum bolt from March scopes to fit this action the bolt being new the action made ten years before , they mated perfectly without and adjustment , this will never happen with mass produced actions , don't get me wrong , mass built cast action can and do shoot but as Vince quite rightly said they simple will not hold there price on resale . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 So....the reason people use factory actions is that initially they seem cheaper than custom actions,but the reason that they do not use Browning actions is that there are no good triggers for Brownings (or maybe stocks and some other bits),whereas there are for Remingtons,and some other factory actions,commonly used in 'customised' builds. "Brownings can't be upgraded so well/easily" ..... gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyt Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yes in short , with out saying one rifle make is good or bad is simple a matter of choice , just look at the type of actions are built on after market and that will answer a lot of questions as to weather they are good or bad for rebuilds , and further more resale . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisserge Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I do know of a Browning .270 cal that got customised and shoots lovely. It had a border cut barrel fitted (28" and fluted PSS profile), Richards microfit stock, the trigger reworked by the local gunsmith. Triggers aren't really available off the shelf, spring kits are. Currently it deals with foxes and deer and I know that the owner is very happy how it performs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finman Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 But, isn't this exactly the issue? You know of A Browning, whereas we know many Sakos, Tikkas, RPAs, Sauers etc etc which shoot very well....my guess is that it is the same reason we don't see many Rugers, Mossbergs, Marlins, or (post '64) Winchesters (to mention a few) being used as a basis for a semicustom rifle...because they are..... I'll let the knowledgeable collective fill in the last sentence of my message... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 What rifle 'out of the box' does not deal with fox and deer? :-) Customising is for two reasons-enhanced beyond factory performance,and perceived aesthetic/functional appeal. Both are desirable,neither really essential. Performance typically includes a better barrel,and secondary components...IF available. Pure bling is personal,though a few items serve both looks and function,(barley twist bolt maybe?) 'Cost effective' misses the point,especially for the second aim. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redshift Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Most factory rifles are cast action receiver rather than machined from a single billet of steel. I must admit this is something that I never knew, since reading this I've had a good look at the actions on my tikka rifles and my mrs remingtons and a Mauser that I have, and for the life of me I can't see any evidence of casting marks, these companies must spend a fortune on polishing out. Thanks for the info Redshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'd be surprised if there were many, if any at all, modern centefire rifle actions that are cast. Certainly the usual ones I play about with aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggy Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I don't think that this is right. Ruger is the only manufacturer that I am aware of that uses the investment casting process for the receivers of its rifles. Just about everyone else machines from bar stock. Not that there is anything wrong with the investment casting process if it is done properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 The Browning Marel straight pull looks to be set to revolutionise rifle actions. Pull the bolt straight back and let it go, bolt returns to battery, loads a round and locks up unaided. No need to take eye off a target and a follow up round available in under 2 seconds. Only available in big calibers though. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Hmmmm I wonder how many high on adrenalin amateur big game hunters might pay a price for this 'progress',if it is really available in otherwise suitable cartridges? gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 The ruger 77 action is investment cast, and i'm pretty sure the Browning is too. I rebarrelled an "A" bolt a few weeks ago. One of the reasons not many get rebarrelled is because the tenon thread is a fine metric pitch [ 0.8 ] if memory serves , and a tough to remove barrel can ruin the action threads easily, as the receiver is cast. You have to be very careful with such receivers. On the subject of big game actions, unless it was a controlled feed Mauser , utilising a large bolt to make sure the next one went in....I would not want to stand in the way of something that was intent on squishing you into the dirt. Not the place to test someone else's idea of a new action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRD Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I've been shooting rifles since '69 so to some people a novice, so excuse my ignorance but what is a "custom" action or rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyt Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I have been informed by other people in the trade that Sako and Tikka actions are also cast , but this is getting off topic from the first post as to why use , or don't use a given action for a rebuild , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyt Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I've been shooting rifles since '69 so to some people a novice, so excuse my ignorance but what is a "custom" action or rifle? you might want to start another thread for this question , I can see this running for a while and its a worthy topic on its own . every body has there own idea of custom rifles , and its a lengthy topic which will I am sure be answered by every body in a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I've been shooting rifles since '69 so to some people a novice, so excuse my ignorance but what is a "custom" action or rifle?[/quot CRD:Though not really a very precise term.it is clearest in contrast to a 'factory' rifle-bought over the shelf,as produced,in some numbers,from the "factory'...Remington,Tikka,Cooper etc etc. "custom" means something like limited production,to a maybe one off specification if a complete rifle,probably from diverse component parts....or a 'custom' action-high spec/tolerance action only (as Stolle,Bat,Sturgeon,Valkyrie etc ).A custom rifle might have a Bat action,Krieger barrel,McMillan stock,jewel trigger....and be assembled by a 'custom' gunsmith-who could produce another exactly the same,to order. "Semi custom" tends to mean eg a Remington action,but with a custom barrel (Pacnor eg),and 'customised' means almost anything not quite as quantity produced from a 'factory',maybe little more than cosmetic changes.. They are not precise terms,really,but that should give the general distinctions.An older term similar to custom,was 'bespoke''-a rifle built to a clients specifications (eg by the "London" gunmakers-Rigby,Holland,etc-often with Birmingham sourced parts). Good custom rifles should have better tolerances,and better performance-much of which derives from the superior components-especially the barrel,and maybe the action.then the rest.But it means 'built from components to the customer's specifications"- a good custom builder will advise if the customer deviates,especially if he feels his quality product is so compromised. Factory 'special editions' are just that-not custom.. Hope this helps... gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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