Remington 700 Action

[Guest Sprags]

its a bit like admitting you have a small dick, or an ugly wife.

 

 

I have both..............................and a remmy!

 

 

For the amount of shooting I do, my remmy will suffice!!

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,Sprags!!

[6ppc]

Callum Ferguson built me two identical rifles in 260 rem one on a Borden action and one one a bluprinted remmy.Both of these rifles were lightweight stalkers with same barrel twist etc,both were fully bedded and fitted with the same optics and jewell triggers.Personally with these rifles there was very little difference in accuracy so for a stalking rifle or general club type rifle i think the remmy is fine.I would chose a custom action over the remmy though if i was competing at a serious level and wanted every bit of accuracy possible and i also like the confidence they inspire for my long range varmint hunting too.A good alternative to a bluprinted remmy is actions like the Stiller Predator and Lawton what col 48 sells and the Borden Alpine and Timberline actions that Callum at PRS sells. I am currently having a rifle built on one of the Timberline actions to see what they are like,i will let you know how it works out.

[baldie]

Hi Graham. Things must be different here, because we cant keep pace [already] with the amount of people wanting one of our semi custom guns built on a remmy. They like them for several reasons, undoubtedly, the main one being the fact that they can have a gun, built on a brand new action, without having to throw the rest of the gun away.

How many factory rifles have you owned in .308 that can consistently shoot in the .3,s graham?

B-b, cant really give a price on a sako/tikka custom, as the last one we did was mine. I paid £500 for the donor rifle[trade] a sako 75 in .243, then it was rebarrelled at border, i cant remember the exact price, but we will say, another 500 quid, and its in a mcmillan a5, which if i remember, was another £550. Add a jard trigger, at £100 ish, and a full bedding job at £200. I make that £1850, which was cheap, considering the trade price of the gun, of which, all i wanted was the action.

[6ppc]

Just to illustrate the work done on my remmy this is what Callum at PRS does with his blueprinting,its a fair bit more than just a basic job this probably explains why it shoots so well.

 

The following is a short description of what is involved in our “blueprint”.

 

 

 

Centre and retap mount base holes to 8 x 40 UNEF

 

Ream and lap action bore to an even size end to end.

 

Bore crest of action thread until true.

 

Recut bolt lug seats & true action face.

 

Single point thread action until thread is completely true with 16tpi full profile insert.

 

Supply new, surface ground recoil lug.

 

Ream inside of bolt body to clear firing pin spring.

 

Drill out firing pin hole in bolt face and tap ready for bushing.

 

Make & install threaded bushing.

 

True bolt nose, front of bolt lugs and bolt face.

 

Drill and ream new firing pin hole to 0.070”

 

Convert firing pin nose to suit new hole diameter.

 

Polish firing pin & install new Wolff spring.

 

Bush bolt body in front of bolt handle and behind bolt lugs to be within 0.001” of action diameter.

 

Fit weaker ejector plunger spring if required.

 

Re-black or bead-blast action

[Bambi-basher]

Edi

 

This guy has a short action Howa .243 for sale S/H for £250 might get it a bit less for cash if you ring and barter:- Timothy Davies 07771-888-007.

 

Baldie

 

I would say you average punter would have to paid £650/700 for a second hand Sako 75 another £100 if you wanted a stainless steel action. So for around £2000 you could have your Sako custom with all the advantages that brings over a 700. The 700 does not seem that cheap. The Howa as a base looks far better if your money is tight and you get a better rifle at the end of the day.

 

6PPC

 

Thanks for that info' seems a lot of “gilding of the lily” is the price I mentioned in the right ball park?

 

Sorry chaps I can see no logical/rational reason to base a semi custom rifle on a 700 action. It was a action that was design to be made cheaply with that came subsequent compromises that a “clean sheet design” would not of had. IMHO.

 

Sorry there is one reason to get one………………………………………………… Baldie's shop are top blokes to deal with, but if you can twist his arm and get him to build a Sako/Howa action semi custom you can have the best of both.

 

B-b

[6ppc]

Hi Bambi,no price is nowhere near what you mentioned.The only way i could see it costing that much is if it had one of their exhibition walnut stocks on it. As you say the take a hell of a lot of work to get the tollerances near the custom actions.

[Bambi-basher]

Hi 6PPC

 

I think I saw that price mention when he had kindly donated one for a BDS auction a couple of years ago, but I could not remember the exact specification, may be it did have a exhibition walnut stock.

 

If it had of been that price for a Mac stock version, then no wonder Baldie is doing a good trade.

 

B-b

[6ppc]

Bambi the ones for the bds auction are usually custom actioned ones,that is the price they usually run at.

[Bambi-basher]

Bambi the ones for the bds auction are usually custom actioned ones,that is the price they usually run at.

 

If that is the case, then it sounds more reasonable.

 

B-b

 

Action £1000 (Only $850/£425 for a Timberline action, Remmy 700 copy)

Barrel £500

Stock £500

trigger £200

labour £500

 

Total= £2700/2275

 

Buy It Now ................................................£6000

 

Perhaps a toptic for another time hey.

[ejg223]

B-b now you're getting me thinking,

this project is only due around sept when the focus goes on deer and

i would possibly need to part with my 223 which i use 2-3 times a week at the

moment. Getting a licence and importing is another thing to look at. I'll give

Timothy a ring anyway.

The remmy thing, I lived in Alabama for a year or so and always loved

the wal-mart adds, "Remingtons on special". You could really picture the local

farmer and wife in wal-mart "honey that one will do, its american made,

you don't really need that fancy european one". Nine times out of ten

it does what they want. Believe me if I'd still be over there and not having

the licence issues we have here, I'd buy a 700, just to take apart, experiment

and play around with.

edi

[Bambi-basher]

B-b now you're getting me thinking,

edi

 

That was the purpose of my post, sometimes it is better to be a....................................................... to quote Panther "Lone wolf" rather than another sheep.

 

B-b

[Vermincinerator]

BB,

This price structure thing came up some time ago and is a bit of a sore point with some posters myself included.

 

IMO the £6000 starting price for a custom actioned rifle from Callum or Norman cannot possibly be justified, and don't gasp, £10,000 for a walnut stocked version niether.

A couple of years ago i asked Norman to cost out a Krieger barrel for my Remmy, fluted, muzzle brake, fully fitted blasted and proved, answer £920.

I also asked Him to supply a Mcmillan stock, fit finish and pillar bed my barrelled action, £750.

(Please note that these prices are for fitting including all labour costs), carry out these procedures on a supplied £1100 custom action, i also got a quote for a Stolle Grizzly with trigger and the price should be £2770.

A full custom rifle build quoted to me at that time was £3700+ vat or about £4100 thats £1330 more for what is exactly the same rifle, so why the extra 1330 quid?

A top US smith will build an equivalent rifle for 1/3 of the price.

 

The reason why Callum and Norman are able to charge these prices is because they can, if enough customers refused to pay their prices then they would have to drop them.

No disrespect to those who have bought rifles from these smiths, but while customers are willing to pay, Callum and Norman will carrying on charging these prices.

 

Ian.

[Bambi-basher]

The reason why Callum and Norman are able to charge these prices is because they can, if enough customers refused to pay their prices then they would have to drop them.

No disrespect to those who have bought rifles from these smiths, but while customers are willing to pay, Callum and Norman will carrying on charging these prices.

 

Ian.

 

Hi Ian

 

I did not know there had been a thread along them lines I must of missed it. (not like me.)

 

I do not blame any of the top smiths for charging these prices, if had a workshop and more orders than I could keep pace with then I too would charge more and more until my work load was more reasonable. It is market forces, charge what the market will stand. I blame the people who are willing to pay it, there is no excuse now with forums like this one for people not to be well informed.

 

If they can’t be bothered to do some research or know the facts and still go there then they deserve to get there pants pulled down and given a good………………………..better stop there or I will be getting banned.

 

B-b

[Andrew]

Remington rifles are a cheap item. I have rebarreled dozens of them. The recoil lug is a pain but it doesn't move. The worst aspects are the extractors, as Baldie pointed out, and the bolt handles. Yes, these are brazed on and can come off at the worst possible time.... and not with any abuse, either. I witnessed two coming off in one afternoon at a metallic silhouette shoot in New Mexico. I have heliarced at least 6 of them back into place in the last 20 years. I have three of these rifles (.222, 308 Sniper, and 30-06) and only trust the .222 afield. No big or dangerous game for me with a Remington 700. ~Andrew

[Ronin]

Regarding the discussion on cost of riflesmithing, I think we covered it at length on the Passion For Stalking Forum and maybe even the Modern Stalking Forums before the "problems" arose.

 

The gist of it was the high price of "name" smiths in the UK.....

[Guest 308Panther]

We buy a Rem mainly on price...

Why do all the work and smithing???...Simply,because we can.

Most people are happy with the way they shoot...And ya gotta take into effect what we are shooting at too...

Mainly its deer sized critters and if ya cant hit a 8in kill zone on a deer at a 100 yrds...Well, it might be because most

of the deer hunters are too hung over and shouldnt be in the woods in the first place,it might also be that a hunting rifle here can shoot 1.5 moa and most are happy with that.Remember too,that 90% of our deer are shot between 40 to 80 yrds...We might hunt with the same rifle for 2 or 3 years and translate that down to 21 hunting days before we get fed up enough to turn a rifle over to a smith...and if ya look at it that way...the barrel isnt even broken in yet.

 

308Panther

 

BTW....I only own/use 2 bolt guns.

Win Model 70 in .308

CZ 452A in .17HMR

[Tikka 260]

Hi Guys

 

I ve said it before somewhere and I shall not hesitate to say it again, Callum did the relatively simple job on my Tikka 595 for me on time , in accordance with his quoted price, and a first class result. And he is contactable, and informative, never hesitates to give his best advice honestly. OK not the cheapest, but are we in the business of cheap?

 

T260

[Ronin]

Tikka260

 

I dont think anyone is accusing our smiths of doing a poor job, far from it, I just wonder sometimes about the cost, especially as the more I read (please see I say read not experience) about gunsmithing (rebarrel and truing work) it does seem relatively straightforwards to a competant machinist (which I am not)

 

Now I do not presume to know or have any experience in this field, but when a smith performs the tasks regularly surely the prices should reflect this.

 

I could order a custom rifle in the US and pay $3000 from an excellent smith (Bryant Custom, George Allen Precision to name but two) and in reality I would be getting cutting edge rifles for £1500 on a CUSTOM action.

 

 

 

Thats why it makes me wonder if we the customer gets value for money.

 

Again, I have no beef with any smith at all, I realise one gets what one pays for and I pay handsomly for my work, but if someone were to produce work of equal quality for a couple of hundred pounds less, then it seems a nonsense not to use them...

 

Anyway, you shoot well with any rifle Mr B

[Ronin]

I see in one of the replies that Callum drills the bolt face and then plugs (threaded plug) and re-drills the firing pin hole for true center.

 

Does this not weaken the bolt face in any way?

 

Secondly, how is the threaded plug secured in place, is it peened over (riveted for want of another word) or held by a thread locking compound?

 

Would it not be better to TIG weld the firing pin hole up and re face / re drill the hole or will that process weaken the structure of the steel?

 

 

Sorry for getting technical guys

[Tikka 260]

Hi Guys

 

I ve said it before somewhere and I shall not hesitate to say it again, Callum did the relatively simple job on my Tikka 595 for me on time , in accordance with his quoted price, and a first class result. And he is contactable, and informative, never hesitates to give his best advice honestly. OK not the cheapest, but are we in the business of cheap?

 

T260

 

 

 

Andy

 

 

Excuse my spleen, thats another matter altogether.

 

As far as cost is concerned, the economic circumstances are very different between Uk and the USA, VAT, NIC, Council taxes, Corporation Tax , and the actual cost of living and raising capital to operate do not equalise, so the delta £ is to some extent understandable..... I agree it is galling tho' just look at the cost of ammunition for instance , made in 100, 000's and practically double the cost here in UK .

 

Ho Hum

 

 

ATB

 

T260

[foxshot]

A very intresting read bb but my remi 700 is off to get blueprinted this weekend and this has put some doubt in my mind now,and as quoted by smeagle i could have purchaced an rpa for the price it is going to cost

[6ppc]

Foxshot,dont worry your rifle will turn out to be a cracking shooter,there is nowt wrong with a customised remmy.

Andy im afraid i dont know enough about the technical aspect to advise but suffice to say he wouldnt do it if it was going to weaken it,i have found no problems with mine.

[Bambi-basher]

Hi Foxshot

 

As PPC says I am sure a good smith will make your rifle a shooter, but what you have to ask your self is, “is their a better way” to achieve the end result?

 

One problem is rifles are like cars for some people, they loose there rational thinking once they have that particular make/model and are blind to the faults of the product, and to justify the decision in spending there cash they defend that product to the death.

 

At least you have heard both sides of the argument so you can now make a informed choice.

 

B-b

[Bambi-basher]

Just to illustrate the work done on my remmy this is what Callum at PRS does with his blueprinting,its a fair bit more than just a basic job this probably explains why it shoots so well.

 

The following is a short description of what is involved in our “blueprint”.

 

 

 

Centre and retap mount base holes to 8 x 40 UNEF

 

Ream and lap action bore to an even size end to end.

 

Bore crest of action thread until true.

 

Recut bolt lug seats & true action face.

 

Single point thread action until thread is completely true with 16tpi full profile insert.

 

Supply new, surface ground recoil lug.

 

Ream inside of bolt body to clear firing pin spring.

 

Drill out firing pin hole in bolt face and tap ready for bushing.

 

Make & install threaded bushing.

 

True bolt nose, front of bolt lugs and bolt face.

 

Drill and ream new firing pin hole to 0.070”

 

Convert firing pin nose to suit new hole diameter.

 

Polish firing pin & install new Wolff spring.

 

Bush bolt body in front of bolt handle and behind bolt lugs to be within 0.001” of action diameter.

 

Fit weaker ejector plunger spring if required.

 

Re-black or bead-blast action

 

Remmington 700 Action, A triumph of relentless development over good basic design?

 

I think that this post above all other proves my point.

 

so the answer is surely .................................................YES

 

 

B-b

[Guest 308Panther]

Hardly....

 

There isnt a firearm manufacture that hasnt had its share of slumps in the QC dept....and there was a time when a person may have had to do an action blue print job on one of the most collectible bolt actioned rifle made...and in many cases this was just to be able to chamber a round as it was still in "New in Box" condition.The rifle I am refering to

has caused many an eye to glaze over and prospective buyers to haul out buckets of cash in hopes of becoming its owner...The rifle I am talkin about would be.... The Pre 64 Model 70 Winchester.And in case your wonderin...mine is a "post '64"

 

And since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....B-B, what would you be shooting if the Japs hadnt gotten their hands on a Rem 700???

 

Interesting....For as much as you tried to point out flaws and shortcomings...Care to guess what my next bolt gun is gonna be???

Rem 700 SS R5 Mil-spec....and for any extra work that might be needed....Well,...We call that personalizing it.

 

308Panther