gbal Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Load...........insert magazine. Ready...........cycle round into chamber. Thank's Dave......about what I'd have done....(well,what I would have expected to be told,when asking) :-) (is the safety catch on or off?and when is it moved to the 'fire' position? I assume there is a "Fire" command too? It's not nit picking in the context of the safety issues of the new mechanisms.I presume if no magazine,the command "Load" does not apply ? Or are we back to "only my discipline" is the real thing? Perhaps we might all remember tomorrow that none are,really. I've shot with civilian clubs on military ranges,where the Range Officer said "You may go to your firing positions" and then "You are clear to shoot''. I would not be surprised if there were alternate "commands"-what is crucial is that they are understood and obeyed-and apply safely to all the weapons on the firing point,and are appropriate to that shooting discipline. Gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted June 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ok you are given the command to load first thing you do is check the safety is on then place the mag into the rifle and you have completed the load. You are given the command ready check the SAFETY is on again and take up pressure on the trigger until the working parts go forward and chamber a round you have just completed the ready and you havent shot anyone and the world hasnt imploded well done. When your ready to fire remove the SAFETY and fire When you want to unload apply the SAFETY remove the mag and check the chamber then take up the pressure again the working parts will go forward remove the SAFETY fire off the action and put the SAFETY back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Here's a question then, can the trigger be squeezed to release the bolt to chamber a round if the safety is on with this Vz as you have indicated above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 I'm sure if you contact them john they will tell you but even if you can't do it its not an issue as you could make ready with the rifle pointing at the target anyway and only after being given the all clear to fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Your post suggested you knew. Not interested enough to waste time calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Hmm "It is a capital error to theorise without the facts" (S Holmes). Hunter,John : helpful posts-we clearly need more detail on the VZ. If anyone has such for the lever release rifle,even the 9mm version,that would be relevant too. Gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 There is no 9mm version. All Scott has built at this time is 10 (that's TEN) .223 rifles. No more than that and no less than that. Ten, there are TEN .223 rifles, of which I know that he supposedly sold SEVEN of those TEN rifles at the Phoenix. These SEVEN rifles were all in .223, not 9mm, not 7,62x39, not .300 AAC and not in 6.5 Grendel. The reason for this is because they were all in .223. and there were only TEN of them and he's sold at least SEVEN of those TEN and they were all in .223. Theoretically there are THREE remaining from the original TEN, and I would assume those THREE are all in .223. There are no other calibre's available at present and it will be some time before the next batch will be ready. If anyone wants any more info, then rather than speculating about it, why not call Scott at Caledonian Arms Bradders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 There is no 9mm version. All Scott has built at this time is 10 (that's TEN) .223 rifles. No more than that and no less than that. Ten, there are TEN .223 rifles, of which I know that he supposedly sold SEVEN of those TEN rifles at the Phoenix. These SEVEN rifles were all in .223, not 9mm, not 7,62x39, not .300 AAC and not in 6.5 Grendel. The reason for this is because they were all in .223. and there were only TEN of them and he's sold at least SEVEN of those TEN and they were all in .223. Theoretically there are THREE remaining from the original TEN, and I would assume those THREE are all in .223. There are no other calibre's available at present and it will be some time before the next batch will be ready. If anyone wants any more info, then rather than speculating about it, why not call Scott at Caledonian Arms Bradders bradders it sounds like your having a mental break down! Just relax sit down and have a cup of tea and answer me this how many were made again did you say TEN was it or 10 and was it .223 ,two two three or 2two3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandy Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 There is no 9mm version. All Scott has built at this time is 10 (that's TEN) .223 rifles. No more than that and no less than that. Ten, there are TEN .223 rifles, of which I know that he supposedly sold SEVEN of those TEN rifles at the Phoenix. These SEVEN rifles were all in .223, not 9mm, not 7,62x39, not .300 AAC and not in 6.5 Grendel. The reason for this is because they were all in .223. and there were only TEN of them and he's sold at least SEVEN of those TEN and they were all in .223. Theoretically there are THREE remaining from the original TEN, and I would assume those THREE are all in .223. There are no other calibre's available at present and it will be some time before the next batch will be ready. If anyone wants any more info, then rather than speculating about it, why not call Scott at Caledonian Arms Bradders Wow, 223 rifles in a 10 calibre, is that a wildcat I'm unfamiliar with it? I think I'm at the point that trigger with dual use will probably end in tears one time or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Hmmm just going to stick the kettle on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 This is my safety ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 This is my safety ......... Your post suggested you knew. Not interested enough to waste time calling. so your not interested enough to waste time calling but your interested enough to ask me and type out the question and reply on a keyboard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Yeah because that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Ok you are given the command to load first thing you do is check the safety is on then place the mag into the rifle and you have completed the load. You are given the command ready check the SAFETY is on again and take up pressure on the trigger until the working parts go forward and chamber a round you have just completed the ready and you havent shot anyone and the world hasnt imploded well done. When your ready to fire remove the SAFETY and fire When you want to unload apply the SAFETY remove the mag and check the chamber then take up the pressure again the working parts will go forward remove the SAFETY fire off the action and put the SAFETY back on. As expected this description of the operation if the Vz.58 MARS rifle is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 There is no 9mm version. All Scott has built at this time is 10 (that's TEN) .223 rifles. No more than that and no less than that. Ten, there are TEN .223 rifles, of which I know that he supposedly sold SEVEN of those TEN rifles at the Phoenix. These SEVEN rifles were all in .223, not 9mm, not 7,62x39, not .300 AAC and not in 6.5 Grendel. The reason for this is because they were all in .223. and there were only TEN of them and he's sold at least SEVEN of those TEN and they were all in .223. Theoretically there are THREE remaining from the original TEN, and I would assume those THREE are all in .223. There are no other calibre's available at present and it will be some time before the next batch will be ready. If anyone wants any more info, then rather than speculating about it, why not call Scott at Caledonian Arms Bradders I am so sorry,Bradders- by 'lever release' I was referring to the -brace yourself- the SGC rifle-my mummy never told me that SGC was a BAD girl,so I don't have any reason to not date her. In the context-clarification of the VZ58 trigger op mechanism,I carelessly thought that 'lever release'- - the only descriptor I've heard for it was clear enough-without the initials.There are two contenders,let's get the specs/details on each. Your details on the number of VZ trigger op rifle ,only in 223,are nonetheless,informative,for anyone considering such a purchase. Clear and concise,repeatedly. Just off target-mea culpa,(rinse mouth)-so,SGC lever release 223 maybe 9mm) rifle,anyone have information,preferably first hand?Bradders,excused these fatigues,if you so wish-but you know as much as anyone about some likely applications for it. :-) Gbal ps-if somebody knows the correct workings of the VZ58,that might be helpful,too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 As expected this description of the operation if the Vz.58 MARS rifle is incorrect. Would you care to explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Well SGC were reportedly only going to make 100 of their .223 version. I've heard on the grape vine that they have all been sold and they are not making any more, but I've also heard they're going to do a second batch. About their 9mm, well I have one here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter87 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 As was talking to John bradders hence the post above yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VZ58marsShooter Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Re: VZ58 mars rifle While I usually don't participate in on-line discussions - I do feel it would be helpful to clear up some matters on this topic, as I own and shoot a VZ58 mars rifle. Operation: the first pull to release the bolt carrier on my rifle measures in excess of 12lbs. / the actual trigger release is approx 6.25 lbs. the difference is very distinct, however, all rifles need to be handled by the use of safely devised drills, practice, observation and general safe handling practices. Ejection: the VZ58 ejects rounds vertically at about 60 degrees forward. On ejection the carrier locks back - the large expanse of the ejection port is very clearly visibly open, without needing to break sight picture by using the non dominant eye. It is a discipline that is easy to drill, due to the nature of the VZ58, unlike most side ejecting straight pulls I own. Optics choices are limited, to avoid spent brass hitting scope, but there are optics available that do the job well and are suited to the use this rifle is suited to - CSR type shooting at low magnification. I have already sourced a BDC scope for 62grn NATO, so for CSR purposes or equivalent all is good. Accuracy: bear in mind that these original mars rifles in .223/5.56 are heavy barrel (with 1:7twist) and well put together. It is not correct to lump them in with AK clones. Shooting off a bag, mine will shoot close to 1 moa - certainly plenty well enough to hold it's own at CSR. By the way, I will be shooting CSR with mine! It shoots GGG NATO 62grn 5.56 just fine - so cheap ammo is readily available. Safety and loading drills: by definition, it is trigger release - so you can't apply the safety then chamber a round. However, this is common to many military rifles for various reasons, although they are not trigger release. You can't chamber a round with either a Dragunov or AK set to safe. Some bolt action rifles can only engage the safety when the rifle is cocked. You can, however chamber a round with the rifle pointed safely at the butts, then apply the safety. Alternatively, you could adopt the range protocol of leaving the carrier locked back at ready, releasing it only when cleared to fire. Inherently, the rifle is no less safe than any straight pull, and it could be argued that it is possibly safer in some respects. At the end of the day it's up to the user. There are three safeties on any rifle: your brain housing group; your trigger finger; and the mechanical safety. The first is always the most important. All users need to become fully conversant with the operation of their particular rifle, understand the nature of the courses of fire they intend to shoot, and then be clear about safe operation drills before they turn up at an event. That's what an individual's practice range time is for. Matches are competitive shoots, not basic handling classes! CSR fire and movement: all rifles have their safeties checked to verify safe operation of the rifle prior to the stage being shot. The VZ safety operates clearly and it's position can be felt by the trigger finger without visual verification. When set to safe, the safety is vertical and in contact with the shooter's finger (if extended or on trigger) in a clearly felt way. There is no reason why the the VZ58 can not be operated in CSR matches as safely as any other current choice and prospective shooters can demonstrate safe handling practices and agree these at the start of any match with the RCO. Subjectivity: it's a VZ, love it or hate it. To those of us who own and shoot the various Comblock style rifles it is probably the best thing we are going to get to shoot in the UK. The VZ's particular design characteristic (being striker fired) lent itself to this innovative design for UK use - full credit to Scott for developing the product! In CSR matches it will provide a nice alternative for those of us who don't worship the AR I hope that clears up some of the questions in this thread from a shooter's perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Looking forward to seeing you at a CSR match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VZ58marsShooter Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Sure - say Hi! at the match and I'll be happy to show you the rifle in detail - mech etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Which match are you shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VZ58marsShooter Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'll aim to shoot most of the matches this winter season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Well I was paired with VZ58marsShooter on Sunday for the first CSR Match of the Winter League, the VZ58 for the most part worked ok and for CSR the accuracy is pretty much acceptable with the GGG he was using. I'm sure that when a few niggles are sorted out and with a bit more practice Adrian will do pretty well with it. Its not a rifle for me but I'm sure many will find it to their liking and for CSR it should do ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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