7mm saum and 284 load n165

[rgt]

Does anyone have starting loads for the 7mm rsaum and a straight 284, H4831sc looks to be in short demand this year so n165 looks to be an option, maybe some other powders could be recommended aswell. I have tried H1000 in saum but hard to get reasonable ES for me

[6mmBR]

Your best bet with the straight .284 is to use Reloader 17 or Elcho 17.

In the .284 somewhere between 52-53 grains will work a treat (obviously work up in your gun)

This load has worked in so many rifles, I won the Imperial meet in 2011 with that load and a friend won the Imperial last year using that powder. Both of us are GB F class team members and the powder has given us a lot of success.

Before someone chirps up about double based powders and all that rubbish. Reloader 17 is not a double based powder, it is a high energy powder infused with nitro glycerine. Double based powders the nitro glycerine is incorporated from the start of the process.

My barrel lasted for 2200 rounds I sold the gun at this point and it would still shoot a clean at 600 yards. I sold it to a club shooter on the premise it needed re barreling, as far as I know it's still going strong with the original barrel!!

Your initial choice of N165 may be a tad slow for the .284 but should work a treat in a SAUM.

I use N165 in my 7/270 WSM and you can achieve very low ES/SD's with this powder.

H1000 is a good powder and again in a 7/270 I get better velocity at lower pressure than N 165. So I'm surprised you had poor results as I get easily the same ES/SD?

It may be take a look at case prep as this is a great influence on ES neck tension and neck wall thickness play a huge roll.

Also a simple change in primer can change things dramatically.

Good luck

Dave

[dannyt]

I have a mate who shoots F class and stalks a lot , he has completed a lot of load testing and development with Vit 160 .

 

160 is showing very good results in speed low temp burn rate (better barrel life )and great spreads sub 10s

 

in a strait .284 he starts at 52 and goes up to 54.5 speeds are 2820 to 2890 this is slightly faster than H4831sc .

 

the barrel is a Krieger and shoots really flat elevations at 1000yrds .

 

we use 160 in =6mm284/25.284/6.5.284 and 284 strait , all give very good results in spreads speed and accuracy.

[rgt]

Thanks for the reply's from you both, much appreciated.i had just wondered if anyone had tried to stick in a case full of the 165 to know if it would be any good or not

It worked quite good in my 6.5x284 and theres a fair bit left over from last year and no one seems to know when Edgar bros will get the next lot of short cut in.Fingers crossed i have enough to last till it comes.

[Elwood]

I tried N165 in my .284 Shehane, accuracy was reasonable but velocity was low, obviously it will be even lower in a .284 Win.

Now when I say low I don't mean silly low, but perhaps to low for shooting competition.

I haven't been the biggest fan of Reloader/Elco 17 but it is freely available and reasonably priced and we'll worth considering, I have also witnessed several people shoot very well with it and have turned to it myself as it free's up my stock of 4831SC for my Shehane, but I suspect I might just have a look at N160 as we'll in the near future.

[garyw]

iv been playing a little with Elcho 17 in my .284 with a 168gn berger but cant get the ES down using fed match .i still need to test with elcho but due to the tropical weather up here cant get out to play.

i did cobble a load together the day before the 600yd shoot at diggle last week-but i used h4831sc -56.6gns and a 168gn sierra hpbt really surprised at the the speed i was getting with this combo 2915fps avg- es was 12fps .i only loaded 5 just to try and hit on a good load by a bit of luck.shot the same load at diggle next day and ended up with some marbles in heavy gun.this was with a f class rifle.im also looking at n160 as i have 2 tubs or the IMR range of powders the h4831sc wont last long.hopefully stocks will return but when?.

[Laurie]

Robert, you don't say what bullet weight you're using, or what length throating / COALs you're running at. I'm assuming it'll be 180s and the barrel throated suitably?

 

In my straight 284 throated by Mik Mak for the Berger 180gn VLD, I can run with a compressed case-load of N165 under the 180gn Sierra MK, a VLD form bullet and seated ~0.015" into the lands. MV is 2,820 fps with 57.0gn with reasonable MV spreads from a 30-inch gain twist (1-8.5 to 1-8 inch) Bartlein. I have been up to 57.5gn which will be somewhere around 2,850 fps still with no pressure problems but the load didn't group well. Above that weight, the charge will be very heavily compressed and I don't believe it'd be wise or practical.

 

That's in expanded Lapua 6.5-284 brass, but Hannams now have Winchester 284 originals in stock which will likely have more capacity than Lapua, but will also equally likely not be as consistent (not measured or weighed any cases yet),

 

If you do try N165, start around 54gn and go up in half-grain steps to 56.5gn and then in smaller steps above that.

 

I've also tried N165 with the older 175gn SMK with reasonable results but it's a little short on velocity. I'd say it's a too slow burner for anything lighter than 175 if you want full .284 MVs.

 

See you at Diggle?

[rgt]

Thanks a lot Lawrie, thats the info i was looking for with the N165, i knew it would not be the fastest load in 284 but its a powder that has given me very good Es results,as i have seen already, it does not have to be the fastest to win.

Its enough info to let me test my new 284 and decide if i go for the speed or the ES, if the RL17 would give me sub 10 then that would be something, anything more and i will have to find some other powder, id rather shoot slow with good ES figures than fast with vertical.

Many thanks

Robert

[Elwood]

Robert, now that I realize which Robert you are I understand your reasoning for accepting ultimate accuracy over velocity, especially after seeing your .284 perform at the Europeans. If my Shehane had had the same level of accuracy as your 284 then I would have accepted the velocity drop and backed my ability, unfortunately it didn't.

[Laurie]

Robert. I should have said I used a Forster 5.5-inch narrow diameter drop-tube funnel and swirl pour to get 57gn into the case. (Swirl pour is tilt the case + funnel slightly and pour the charge slowly from the scalepan onto the funnel wall in such a way that it runs partly around the funnel before dropping into the droptube. This lets you get 2-3gn more into the case compared to a straight downwards pour into a short-tube funnel.)

[rgt]

Thanks for all the answers guys, Laurie if its as much bother to get that amount in then then i think david in his first post is ultimately correct, its to slow and it does look like H4831 is the perfect powder and theres no point in looking for anything slower to work.

 

 

I think i will try r17 , would i be right in assuming the go to primer for this would be the CCI Br

[GeorgeB]

I have tried various primers with Elcho 17 and RWS seem to give a cleaner burn. They are hotter than the BR2s.

[Laurie]

N165 is deifinitely just a tad slow burning for the cartridge - I use a Forster long drop-tube funnel for everything though as it seems everything I load these days has the case completely full, even F/TR .308 and .223 loads!

 

I'd intended to use H4831 too, but with the Hodgdon powder situation, there's no guarantee of getting a season's supply, even when it reappears. (When Edgar Brothers receives its main annual shipment from the USA and word gets out that retailers have IMR / Hodgdon powders again, it'll spread like wildfire via all these electronic gizzmos I don't understand and it really will be a case of 'The Devil takes the hindmost!', at least for Varget, H4895, H4350 and probably H4831 too.) Apart from H4831, Re17 / Elcho 17 is the other obvious alternative for this cartridge, alongside Viht N560. Despite David (6mmBR)'s views on high-energy powders being fine barrel life wise, I'd rather stick with a good old single-base job having seen what N540 and N550 can do to .308 Win F/TR rifle barrels - providing the cartridge performs well enough of course. I will try Ramshot Hunter (double-base ball type) in it under 180s at some point purely to evaluate the powder.

 

Primers? I'll wait to hear with others with experience of the cartridge say. I'm using Russian (Murom) PMC branded primers which have a reputation like the CCI-BR2 model for being mild, but you can't get them in this country anymore.

[baldie]

I think HPS have Murom Laurie.

[Elwood]

Good powder for my 7mm mag is n560 with 180 grain hybrids... 2961 fps

With all due respect the topic is on 7mm Saum and .284W, let's not try and get side tracked.

[Exeter lad]

Lol.. I'm not just saying what I have good results with... Same cal .284 and bullet just a bigger case! How's it side tracking

[6mmBR]

Lol.. I'm not just saying what I have good results with... Same cal .284 and bullet just a bigger case! How's it side tracking

I would have thought it was obvious?

The 7mm Rem mag is not a .284W or a 7mm SAUM as the OP asked about?

[6mmBR]

Please keep this to track as stated.

Key pad warrior an interesting concept to which you seem to fit the role perfectly.

You have been asked now by 2 moderators to keep on track now please take heed!!!

[Laurie]

I think HPS have Murom Laurie.

 

 

Thanks Dave - I'll follow up on that as they do seem to suit some cartridges and loads really well.

[6mmBR]

I bought some from John a little while ago to try but not got round to it yet.

I didn't realise they come in 2 flavours, both leaded and un leaded.

I gathered from John the leaded (red box) was what the Americans called the Russian/PMC primer.

Cheers

Dave

[Laurie]

Thanks for that Dave (the other one - a surfeit of Dave's here!) I hadn't realised there were two lots either. York Guns used to import the PMC branded variety from Europe years ago, but nobody here rated them at that time. I've yet to find a small magnum primer that's as good as the Murom / PMC model in .223 with 90s and a case-load of Varget or Re15. Des Parr was also looking for the LR variety a while back - I presume he uses them in 284 / 7mm short magnums, so he'll likely see the reference here soon.

[desparado]

Hi Laurie,

 

Yes, I've been using the KVB-7s since 2009.

They are now marketed as PMCs, but come from the same "Murom Apparatus" plant in Russia.

 

In the time since then, I've used about 7,000 of them.

I've never had any hang-fires or any problems, I reckon they are excellent.

 

Precision Shooting did a test a few years ago and found they produced an exceptionally small spark.

 

Cheers.

[dorg]

I am sure York guns offered me Murom primers not that long ago.

[Bianchi]

Hi Laurie,

 

Yes, I've been using the KVB-7s since 2009.

They are now marketed as PMCs, but come from the same "Murom Apparatus" plant in Russia.

 

 

Hi Des,

 

It's time to start load development with a new powder (N160) and a new bullet, thanks to Hornady's current manufacturing strategy. Since my LR magnum primer stock is running low for my .284 Win. and Federal 215Ms can't be found for love of money, exactly which model were you using? Presumably KVB-7M or KVB-7EM?

 

BTW: Found this link:

 

http://www.mpzflame.ru/production/primers/

 

Cheers,

[garyw]

LAURIE- i have some kvb 223 from mr Fox if you want to try them i can bring some to diggle .