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Ok here could be a can of worms!!!!! What benefits is there breaking a new barrel in? What does 1 gain etc!! I have never owned a new rifle but I am about too! All the pros/ semi pro stalkers I know buy a rifle, scope it in then get on with job in hand! So what are they doing wrong if anything? And they have never had any probs with any of their rifles! Are we being too precious or is it something the manufacturers have devised along with ammo manufacturers to aid sales? This is a debate/discussing I am realy looking forward to!!

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Hello nutty this one is over my head.Am under the idea that you fire 1 shot then clean very thorough as a second shot will push cooper fouling etc into the barrel etc.Im not sure on this but im sure there will be some good replies from more in the know.

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I have done a one shot shoot and clean routine - as suggested by Border Barrels. I doubt I would do it again.

 

Gale Mc.Millan may have had it right - you could spoil a good custom barrel ( - how much better is your brushing than a custom hand lapped barrel done by a pro). On the other hand you probably wont do much to improve or spoil a factory tube.

 

If the Idea is to remove tool marks from the chamber / throat - ok I can buy that, but very soon throat erosion is going to eat there no matter what.

 

On the 6mmbr blog there is a section of a barrel worth a look.

 

David.

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Don't really know if there is a great benefit, but

I'm convinced that for example my lapped barrel

changed after about 100 rounds. Cleaning is getting

easier and easier. Very little copper now compared

to the start. Rifle always shot well, didn't notice a difference.

 

Now, if a new tight barrel has several layers of copper I

believe like a clogged pipe, pressure could increase.

The fit gets tighter.

My old barrel was so shot out that with a clean barrel

I missed a A4 sheet at 100yds completely. After about 15 rounds

she shot 1" groups. ??? Something was going on there, or?

 

edi

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I think it it a fantasy. Gun makers fire several test rounds through each gun before it is shipped and pay little heed to "break-in" during those precious first shot. When I barrel a rifle I fire a half a dozen factory (if it is a factory chambering) rounds to check feed, function, and safety, then proceed to work up accuracy loads. I agree with the posting that the barrel dynamics change quickly with use. Even more so by the over-use of a cleaning rod! ~Andrew

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A good quality barrel such as Kreigher, Boarder, Shillen, etc, dont really need Shooting in, the purpose of shooting in is aimed more at the factory type rifle where perhaps not so much care has been taken in its manufacture and finnish. its purpose as far as i can gather is to try and stop any copper fouling buildin up on 'Rough' areas of the barrel that will cause undue shortening of the barrel life or loss of 'normal accuracy' capabilities. at the end of the shooting in period any rough areas of the barrel should have been smoothed out without any excessve build up or damage caused by copper fouling. I have never tried to quantify this claim but for the sake of a bit of time spent shooting and cleaning for the first fifty round, of which a fair few will be used zeroing or load testing anyhow, i dont see the hardship. Those rifles of better quality i have purchased I have still followed this routine but for fewer rounds, ie 15-20 instead of 50

 

Ian

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First rifle I ever had I didnt do it and it took me ages to get it clean when I did clean it after the first session, it also took me a while to get a good regime that worked for my barrel. Last barrel I broke in with a shoot 1, clean for 10 rounds, then shoot 3 and clean for 30 rounds. In that time I learned alot about what my barrel likes, what solvent worked din it and what techniques and also how much of a fouler it was. It also saved me from a big job removing heavy fouling at the end of the first session. There is no doubt a new barrel will strip alot of cooper for the first 30-40 rounds and some barrels will strip cooper all there lifes but for those first few it will be very heavy so it makes sense to me to make life a bit easier. Also during the 3 shot stage I was able to build up a picture of where a cold clean shot shoots compared to a warm dirty barrel which is always handy. Its definatley worth the hassle in my opinion if nothing else to build up a picture of how your barrel behaves. With a proper bore guide and proper technique you should not be damaging your barrel while cleaning so a little extra shouldnt hurt, especially considering how many times in the life of a barrel it will be cleaned anyway. Mine would be cleaned at least twice but maybe four times in a week, if I thought cleaning it was damaging it I would be afraid to shoot it. I dont think breaking in will make a barrel anymore accurate though.

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First rifle I ever had I didnt do it and it took me ages to get it clean when I did clean it after the first session, it also took me a while to get a good regime that worked for my barrel. Last barrel I broke in with a shoot 1, clean for 10 rounds, then shoot 3 and clean for 30 rounds. In that time I learned alot about what my barrel likes, what solvent worked din it and what techniques and also how much of a fouler it was. It also saved me from a big job removing heavy fouling at the end of the first session. There is no doubt a new barrel will strip alot of cooper for the first 30-40 rounds and some barrels will strip cooper all there lifes but for those first few it will be very heavy so it makes sense to me to make life a bit easier. Also during the 3 shot stage I was able to build up a picture of where a cold clean shot shoots compared to a warm dirty barrel which is always handy. Its definatley worth the hassle in my opinion if nothing else to build up a picture of how your barrel behaves. With a proper bore guide and proper technique you should not be damaging your barrel while cleaning so a little extra shouldnt hurt, especially considering how many times in the life of a barrel it will be cleaned anyway. Mine would be cleaned at least twice but maybe four times in a week, if I thought cleaning it was damaging it I would be afraid to shoot it. I dont think breaking in will make a barrel anymore accurate though.

Well put my mate!!!

 

It will make life easyer in the long run!!!!

You only have to do it once???

So do it and then have no regrets!!!

 

F2n

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I,ve always looked at it this way. Would you take a brand new motorcycle [especially a 2 stroke] and thrash it at 100mph for ten miles down a motorway? i wouldn,t, so i dont do it to a barrel.I,ve never seen the hardship in running in a barrel, its time well spent, getting to know the gun/barrel, and when youve done enough, you get a "feel" for the rod, and can tell roughly how much more needs doing.

I,ve never had a gun that wouldn,t hold sub minute groups either, so i,m sold on the idea.

You have to do what you see fit i think.

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Guest varmartin

I have purchased only 4 brand new rifles.

 

Steyr Tactical Elite .223

Sako 75 .223

Remington 700 .243

Cz 17 HMR

 

Plus 1 custom Kreiger 6mm br. ( was rem 700 .243)

 

I Cleaned the barrels from new on all of them before I fired a single shot .

 

What I noticed on every one of them is considerable copper fouling for the first 8-30 rounds. ( or more ) as every new tube will.

 

Cleaning regime was fire 1 shot and clean for 5 rounds, then 3 shots and clean for approx 9 rounds or until coppering was reduced significantly.

 

The Steyr was a bitch, I could hardly push a patched jag down the tube and it coppered severely for 50 + rounds.

It was an average 1/2 moa rifle, but was always difficult to clean.

 

The sako VLS stopped copper fouling after 10 rounds and is a peach to clean, I mean..squeaky clean too.

 

The Remmy was a copper fowler too, but started to shoot well after 200 rounds and cleaning only then became easy .

 

The CZ was full of what came out looking like mud for 50 rounds...now shows hardly any copper after firing 50 rounds.

 

The custom Kreiger was a totally different story. the barrel copper plated for 8 rounds only, then stopped copper fouling completely. Cleans a peace of cake with no loss of accuracy for 50 + rounds without cleaning.

 

My conclusion is ALL barrels need to have the throat `shot in `

as it is this area that turns copper jacket into a ` copper plasma` that is deposited in the bore.

 

I Don`t waste this precious time, I use it to zero my optics and work up a load....that's what I do.

 

From what I have found and from what others say...I don`t think it makes a lot of difference how you `shoot in`the throat.

As long as all the copper/ carbon is removed after this process and after each session to maintain peak accuracy.

 

I have also noticed how well some rifles shoot that have never been cleaned from new..just used an abused.

Some riflemen are happy with a four inch group @ 100 yards....me...I`m not impressed.

 

Martin

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So if Im reading this right then normal would be fire 5 shots, clean after each shot then fire a few groups of 3 then clean after each 3rd shot? So it would almost be like polishing the rough edges of the rifling etc which in turn would make the cleaning of the barrel easier and hopefully prolong barrel life?

 

Ok what technique would you use e.g. brush then patch using a propriate cleaner?

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Please forgive me for quoting someone else, I read this a few years ago. I think the bloke may know a thing or three and has a point and is worth the read. David.

 

"As a barrel maker I have looked in thousands of new and used barrels

with a bore scope and I will tell you that if every one followed the

prescribed break in method A very large number would do more harm than

help. The reason you hear of the help in accuracy is because if you

chamber barrel with a reamer that has a dull throater instead of cutting

clean sharp rifling it smears a burr up on the down wind side of the

rifling. It takes from 1 to 2 hundred rounds to burn this bur out and

the rifle to settle down and shoot its best. Any one who chambers rifle

barrels has tolerances on how dull to let the reamer get and factories

let them go longer than any competent smithe would. Another tidbit to

consider, Take a 300Win Mag. that has a life expectancy of 1000 rounds.

Use 10% of it up with your break in procedure for ever 10 barrels the

barrel maker makes he has to make one more just to take care of the

break in. no wonder barrel makers like to see this. Now when you flame

me on this please include what you think is happening to the inside of

your barrel during the break in that is helping you.

 

 

Consider this, every round shot in breaking in a barrel is one round off

the life of said rifle barrel. No one has ever told me the physical

reason of what happens during break in firing. In other words to the

number of pounds of powder shot at any given pressure, is the life of the

barrel. No one has ever explained what is being accomplished by

shooting and cleaning in any prescribed method. Start your barrel off

with 5 rounds and clean it thoroughly and do it again. Nev Maden a

friend down under that my brother taught to make barrels was the one who

come up with the break in method. He may think he has come upon

something, or he has come up with another way to sell barrels. I feel

that the first shot out of a barrel is its best and every one after that

deteriorates until the barrel is gone. If some one can explain what

physically takes place during break in to modify the barrel then I may

change my mind. As the physical properties of a barrel doesn't change

because of the break in procedures it means it's all hog wash. I am open

to any suggestions that can be documented otherwise if it is just

someone's opinion forget it".

 

Gale McMillan

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ds1 thats what I was getting at! We use soft lead wrappd in another soft metal! We clean our rifles using cotton swaps, and soft nylon or copper brushes! As it wont damge the barrel! I also wildfowl and load my own shells, now when we use steel or hevi shot the shot is wrapped fully in a wad so it doesnt scrap the barrel as steel to steel aint a clever thig to do unless we use a lubricant. Now lead pellets can be fired using a fibre wad and are in complete contact with the barrel and as it soft will not harm the inner wall of the barrel. However I know shotguns have a smooth bore and well a rifle is rifled to stabalise the projectile!

 

I like yourself cannot see the benefit of breaking a barrel in unless to boost barrel sale or ammo sales!! I was going to let the topic run before I threw this post in but now seems the time!

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We have already had a good do at this subject why raise it again in another thread?

http://ukvarminting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1627

Redfox

 

 

 

 

because even if GOD told some people that bbl break in is a waste of bbl life then some people are so set in their ways that they would STILL disbelive

 

it was I that copied and pasted the gale mc thread and I can promise you that I have a fair amount more top bbl and gun makers have told the same story before but people wont listen

 

I turn up at the range with all my gear that takes three trips from car to fireing point, I shoot some anal groups with a variety of guns for example and these guns always shoot well

 

I talk to some other people that I know ask they me questions about the latest longe range one shot one kills I have had and about how far I have been grouping this time etc etc example

 

whilst talking i turn and notice a guy that has turned up at the range with a gun he is franticlly trying to get it to shoot

 

he has ALL his cleaning gear with a cleaning station and is pushing tigth patch after tight patch down his bore using a number of solvents, he removes the bore guide (if he has one) re-chambers the bolt and starts firing a coiuple of rounds and repeats the process again and again

 

where the spiral staircase is my cleaning gear??????????? at home where it belongs, so he figures that I know nothing and well below him (you see it in their faces) but then he sees a lot of fuss and talking between myself and the few others that I know because I just shot some screamer groups

 

I would like to help the guy and tell him that the way he is cleaning is proberbly harming his rifle and that I noticed he has NO method if cleaning his chamber after getting all that solvent in his chamber and because he doenst clean the chamber properly after giving his rifling a good wearing down and firing rounds over the top of solution that he left in his throat and by doing this he is proberbly causing heat cracks in the throat where the cold solution is met with extreme heat

 

I would like to tell him that all these people that go through all that that which promotes growth and vigour JUST so when they fire a few rounds there is next to spiral staircase all copper left in there bore, then why the hell do they still clean it any way

 

and that I have met people that say that their bbls are getting a bit shot out and are thinking of getting a new one as theirs only shoot after a few foulers, so why the spiral staircase wont they leave it fouled and clean it less if it shoots better fowled and is worn anyway????????????????????

 

but I dont say anything because he wouldnt listen anyway and carry on shooting good groups

 

one thing to point out is that custom bbls are cut/buttond a wee bit smaller than the required cal size lets sy a 308 is cut 307 or 3065 then lapped out to 307 for 308bullets as it is said that a fifling needs to be 1 thou smaller than the bullet to be accurate

 

polish it out more and you reduce bbl life

 

gale mcmillan on the same argument allso stated that if he ever had (and has had) a bbl back because it was claimed it didnt shoot and he looked through a bore scope and found that the user had been using JB paste then he would VOID the warrantee

 

a factory tube normally comes out almost bang on the cal bullet size, thats why many factory bbls shoot better when fouled

 

I could cut and paste thread after thread about this subject from top top bbl makers and top shooters but then most would not listen because they know better that the likes of gale mcmillan david tub etc etc etc

 

I read some where and have it saved on my pc somewhere that david tub developed the fire lapping rounds because of the following........

 

david has won matches using out of the box rifles like remington and competed using these at comps where bench rest quality rifles were used

 

david used to hand lap a new bbl before the comp, shoot it for fouling and win

 

when he didnt have time to hand lap he developed the fire lapping rounds

 

hand lapping uses a LEAD casting of the ACTUAL bbl so that the lapping compound is rubbed evenly on both LANDS and GROOVES other wise it would be just the LANDS that get worn

 

IF you do bbl break in then your jag and cloth rub 70% on the LANDS and 30% on the GROOVES so you can see why you will be doing more harm than good

 

MOST of the fouling seen in a new bbl will be in the GROOVES and NOT on the lands and trying to polish your bore so you dont get fouling in the grooves means that 70% of the WEAR will be applied to the critical LANDS

 

I have a statement save on my pc made by border bbls that a remington bbls can take hundreds of rounds before it shot well

 

what they mean is that the bbl shot poor until sufficiant fouling was produced to give a tighter bore and accuracy was found

 

YES I have got two custom tubes as well as factory tubes and NO I wont ever be using the shoot one clean one ever again

 

the plasma dust I experienced with my new archer bbl on my 300wm was severe on the first couple of rounds but plasma bust from the copper jacket evenly places itself over the entire bore so the next bullet down DOESNT ride over an un even surface so does not cause damage

 

I started with the break in with the 300wm because my friends pestered me in to doing so but only shot three rounds cleaning after each

 

the fourth round i shot over thye top of the third without cleaning, the third round coated the bore with plasma dust so the entire bore looked copper coated but on firing the fourth round over the top of this it all vanished and barely fouls now

 

it does however foul after the first shot and the second shot seems to push out the plasma dust

 

I beleive I have saved myself a lot of precious bbl life by not following the bbl break in and she can cold bore hit her target dead

centre at 1270 yards so I dont think their is a problem there

 

but then what do I know?????????

 

I personly know a very good rifle smith that has hundreds and hundreds of rifles and hundreds of bbl blanks in his possession and has spent years and years competing, teaching and hunting etc and his actual job IS teaching all aspects of shooting

 

NO I dont claim to have absorbed all his wisdom through osmosis but I do consult with him on my ideas and thoughts and usually he agrees with my theory and pactical results

 

oh and sorry for the bitch

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because even if GOD told some people that bbl break in is a waste of bbl life then some people are so set in their ways that they would STILL disbelive

 

it was I that copied and pasted the gale mc thread and I can promise you that I have a fair amount more top bbl and gun makers have told the same story before but people wont listen

 

I turn up at the range with all my gear that takes three trips from car to fireing point, I shoot some anal groups with a variety of guns for example and these guns always shoot well

 

I talk to some other people that I know ask they me questions about the latest longe range one shot one kills I have had and about how far I have been grouping this time etc etc example

 

whilst talking i turn and notice a guy that has turned up at the range with a gun he is franticlly trying to get it to shoot

 

he has ALL his cleaning gear with a cleaning station and is pushing tigth patch after tight patch down his bore using a number of solvents, he removes the bore guide (if he has one) re-chambers the bolt and starts firing a coiuple of rounds and repeats the process again and again

 

where the spiral staircase is my cleaning gear??????????? at home where it belongs, so he figures that I know nothing and well below him (you see it in their faces) but then he sees a lot of fuss and talking between myself and the few others that I know because I just shot some screamer groups

 

I would like to help the guy and tell him that the way he is cleaning is proberbly harming his rifle and that I noticed he has NO method if cleaning his chamber after getting all that solvent in his chamber and because he doenst clean the chamber properly after giving his rifling a good wearing down and firing rounds over the top of solution that he left in his throat and by doing this he is proberbly causing heat cracks in the throat where the cold solution is met with extreme heat

 

I would like to tell him that all these people that go through all that that which promotes growth and vigour JUST so when they fire a few rounds there is next to spiral staircase all copper left in there bore, then why the hell do they still clean it any way

 

and that I have met people that say that their bbls are getting a bit shot out and are thinking of getting a new one as theirs only shoot after a few foulers, so why the spiral staircase wont they leave it fouled and clean it less if it shoots better fowled and is worn anyway????????????????????

 

but I dont say anything because he wouldnt listen anyway and carry on shooting good groups

 

one thing to point out is that custom bbls are cut/buttond a wee bit smaller than the required cal size lets sy a 308 is cut 307 or 3065 then lapped out to 307 for 308bullets as it is said that a fifling needs to be 1 thou smaller than the bullet to be accurate

 

polish it out more and you reduce bbl life

 

gale mcmillan on the same argument allso stated that if he ever had (and has had) a bbl back because it was claimed it didnt shoot and he looked through a bore scope and found that the user had been using JB paste then he would VOID the warrantee

 

a factory tube normally comes out almost bang on the cal bullet size, thats why many factory bbls shoot better when fouled

 

I could cut and paste thread after thread about this subject from top top bbl makers and top shooters but then most would not listen because they know better that the likes of gale mcmillan david tub etc etc etc

 

I read some where and have it saved on my pc somewhere that david tub developed the fire lapping rounds because of the following........

 

david has won matches using out of the box rifles like remington and competed using these at comps where bench rest quality rifles were used

 

david used to hand lap a new bbl before the comp, shoot it for fouling and win

 

when he didnt have time to hand lap he developed the fire lapping rounds

 

hand lapping uses a LEAD casting of the ACTUAL bbl so that the lapping compound is rubbed evenly on both LANDS and GROOVES other wise it would be just the LANDS that get worn

 

IF you do bbl break in then your jag and cloth rub 70% on the LANDS and 30% on the GROOVES so you can see why you will be doing more harm than good

 

MOST of the fouling seen in a new bbl will be in the GROOVES and NOT on the lands and trying to polish your bore so you dont get fouling in the grooves means that 70% of the WEAR will be applied to the critical LANDS

 

I have a statement save on my pc made by border bbls that a remington bbls can take hundreds of rounds before it shot well

 

what they mean is that the bbl shot poor until sufficiant fouling was produced to give a tighter bore and accuracy was found

 

YES I have got two custom tubes as well as factory tubes and NO I wont ever be using the shoot one clean one ever again

 

the plasma dust I experienced with my new archer bbl on my 300wm was severe on the first couple of rounds but plasma bust from the copper jacket evenly places itself over the entire bore so the next bullet down DOESNT ride over an un even surface so does not cause damage

 

I started with the break in with the 300wm because my friends pestered me in to doing so but only shot three rounds cleaning after each

 

the fourth round i shot over thye top of the third without cleaning, the third round coated the bore with plasma dust so the entire bore looked copper coated but on firing the fourth round over the top of this it all vanished and barely fouls now

 

it does however foul after the first shot and the second shot seems to push out the plasma dust

 

I beleive I have saved myself a lot of precious bbl life by not following the bbl break in and she can cold bore hit her target dead

centre at 1270 yards so I dont think their is a problem there

 

but then what do I know?????????

 

I personly know a very good rifle smith that has hundreds and hundreds of rifles and hundreds of bbl blanks in his possession and has spent years and years competing, teaching and hunting etc and his actual job IS teaching all aspects of shooting

 

NO I dont claim to have absorbed all his wisdom through osmosis but I do consult with him on my ideas and thoughts and usually he agrees with my theory and pactical results

 

oh and sorry for the bitch

 

have a nice cup of tea,2 asprin and a lie down,tis wont help your blood presure!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: ,later dude!!!

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Silent souls you need to relax, everybody does it all different if you think youre right just keep on trucking the way you are and let us all spiral staircase up our barrels, I know one thing my little pac-nor barrel still shoots 5 shots below 0.200 very regular even after I runied the barrel when I took an hour and a half to run it it. I have no doubt though that you know a hell of a lot more about this game than I ever will know so I would never say youre wrong because I am sure youre right :lol: but I clean my rifle every 30 shots and it still groups like a mother spiral staircaseer even out of a cold clean barrel shots are in group so I am just gonna keep cleaning like the stupid obbessive compulsive stripey deckchair I am :lol: . Best group so far 1/2" at 330 yards from a cold barrel that aint half bad i think.

 

I will admit though I dont take my cleaning gear to the ranges when I go with my club cause them delightful chaps would laugh at me, I noticed no drop in accuracy after nearly 100 rounds :lol:

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Guest Smeagle

Yeah, yeah, yeah read it all before. Complete crap, sorry but there isn't a world benchrest champion or F class Champ or full bore champ who doesn't run in the barrel, every sniper's rifle is run in. Why well there is actually a very good and scentific reason for it. The problem is do it wrong and yes you do more damage than good and as for shooting fouled rifles thats quite frankly broccoli.

 

I will deal with that piece of misinformation first if I may be so bold. The basis of good shooting is consistency, why else do you measure that which promotes growth and vigour, well if anyone can show me how to get consistent fouling round after round I would love to see it. It simply isnt possible but some still insist that it is the case and it maybe in the short term but long term you have just stuffed the barrel, also you are in serious danger of blowing yourself up, they are designed to accept certain pressures and if you narrow the bore by allowing it to get caked then simply put you are a fool. If you have read into this post that I am a little annoyed at the above posts thats why, its poor advice, its danagerous and stupid.

 

Now I have read McPillocks views before and he has some very strange ideas on a wide variety of subjects and this is just one of them, you should read the crap he says about crowning. But yet people still insist on quoting him. Why because he is a barrel maker well there are hundreds of barrel makers and all or most have the same opinion, he gets press and quoted simply because his opinion differes from everyone elses.

 

So why do we run a barrel in, because metal is porous and nitro what is used in the propellant is corrosive. Now its a very simple scientific fact that metal expands under heat and pressure, it basically opens it and then under cooling it contracts. Well for the simpltons amongst us if we fire a projectile through a metal tube at 3000 fps the metal gets very hot it is also placed under pressure. This caused the pours to open, not a problem they are supposed to, then we fire another round behind it, all that corrosive nitro in now being forced into those pours. Then to top it of we open them again and force more corrosive nitro into the metal at the molecular level. Now the funny thing is this metal when heated and cooled gets harder, called tempering it also gets more brittle, the reason is this as the metal contricts under cooling it doesnt expand as far under the next heating, which means that the pours are getting smaller and smaller, so by conditioning the barrel less corrosive nitro is forced into the metal and thus both the barrel life and accuracy is extended, this is why you need to do it and the reason that you dont need to clean after every shot for the life of the barrel, it also allows the barrel to cool between the first few shots fired which is important you also have a base from which to build your loads. You are basically conditioning your barrel to the heat and chemicals. It has spiral staircase all or very little to do with copper.

 

Now I agree that a poor conditioning or a half arsed attempt is more detrimental than not doing it at all, so what is the solution.

 

Learn how to do it properly.

 

You will need 50 rounds.

 

First 10 clean between each, allow the barrel to cool between shots at least five minutes.

 

Second 10 clean between every second round.

 

Third 10 clean between every third round, is there a pattern.

 

Fourth 10 clean between every five

 

Fifth 10 clean at the end and that should do you, make sure you use a bore guide and a good quality rod.

 

So there you have it, will be pleased to see what other nonsense comes of this, just had to answer this one as yet another myth.

 

There is a lot more to it but this will do for starters.

 

By the way this isnt based on the coat tails of someones elses OPINION but scentific fact.

 

Sorry for the bitch.

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Barrel brake-in

 

Step 1. Take a chill pill.

 

I posted the quote / link in the hope that the discourse would move past the satge of " I do it this way cause my mate does it this way". Agree or disagree - I would like to learn and that can be achieved through understanding - in this case trying to understand the process and equally importantly peoples experiences but anything constructive gets lost in the agressiveness.

 

David.

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Guest Smeagle

Sorry but if it was just the usual ill-informed, uneducated nonsense that would be one thing but this is just crap.

 

And I am a little annoyed because a guy got blown up here a couple of weeks ago due to a fouled rifle. He now has two kids and a widow.

 

It is seriously dangerous and completely stupid advice to give. Do not shoot fouled rifles.

 

I really don't get it at times, things are done for a reason not just to inconivence people, it's starts with education learning your craft, correct procedures and a bit of self discipline. Then is formed into a habit and principle by which you live, in my experiacne someone who cuts corners here does it there, if they are half arsed in one aspect then they are in all aspects. It starts with I can't be bothered to run the barrel in besides noddy nobody reckons you don't need to. Then before you know it well I don't need to run it in, why clean it, why even bother taking any cleaning gear to the range. Then at home why bother cleaning it all, its been there in the safe, so what the point in checking it, its been there on the bench why check it. You see where I am going.

 

Slack arses have no place on a range or with a firearm. And quite frankly if you don't like my tone then tuff titty because this is serious, it cuts to the heart of all the safety procedures that are put in place.

 

Its poor piss poor and there is no excuse for it other than idleness.

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Guest Smeagle

Those symbols that's people laughing at you not with you, all your doing is showing your ignorance.

 

There is no need for me to do it they are informed of that in basic training, something that a few could do with. Troops are required to clean and check their weapons, indeed many of the faults reported initially with the weapons and their poor performance was due to a lack of care. Indeed the H&K 416 has been redesigned to blow the carbon and nitro out the front to prevent it contaminating the action. Semi and Autos are over specked and have slack tolerances to cope with this kind of abuse, that's why they only are expected to shoot 3moa. But you would know that.

 

Range bugs, always there spooking off, never have anything with them but always need it, because they are never prepared and end up bugging everyone to lend theirs, there isn't a serious shooter in the world in any comp that would go to a range without a cleaning kit, it's unheard of. The same as conditioning the barrel.

 

Well anymore 'good' advice you want to pass on while your at it. I am sure that you have a lot to teach and I m all ears as they say.

 

Oh and out of fairness I suggest you PM some of the others on the board before you decide what your biting off. I will argue the point with you but you will lose, lets see some facts give me some scientific evidence of what your saying.

 

Here is what someone else has to say

 

"In simple terms, a rifle barrel is a tube of steel with a set of parallel grooves, called rifling, running the length of the bore in a spiral. When a rifle is fired, the bullet travels up the barrel where the rifling “cuts” into the bullet forcing the bullet to spin at the same rate as the spiral. Once the bullet leaves the barrel, axis spin gives the bullet stability (and therefore accuracy) in flight.

New rifle barrels require being “run-in” to prepare the surface of the barrel for optimum performance.

 

All barrels are machined from solid metal that either has to be distorted or cut to shape when being manufactured. These processes result in a surface finish to the bore and rifling which may be too rough to allow the bullet to slide along without dragging off some of the bullet material and causing it to stick or “weld” to the bore. Occasionally these processes (particularly the button forming method) can result in a finish to the bore and rifling which can be too smooth. Even in this case some of the bullet material can end up stuck to the bore by what is known as “friction welding”, which occurs when two extremely smooth surfaces of metal rub together. This material that sticks or welds to the barrel is called metallic fouling and is the prime cause of poor accuracy in new or nearly new barrels. Metallic fouling not dealt with through a proper running in procedure will ultimately ruin a brand new barrel. It will increase and build up in thickness in an irregular manner. These patches of fouling will cause damage to the surface of the next bullet as it passes and may even cause upset between the jacket and the lead core if severe enough.

 

At the junction of the chamber and bore, the throat is the parallel area immediately in front of the case mouth. This is where he exposed part of the bullet sits just prior to firing. Just ahead of the throat is the leade, a tapered area where the throat diameter reduces down to the groove diameter and onwards to the bore diameter. When the rifle is fired, the bullet impacts the leade and is squeezed down in diameter and into the shape of the grooves. In new barrels, the throat and leade have often quite rough surfaces as a result of the rotary motion of the chamber cutter, known as the reamer, which has been used to create them. The marks are radial which is at right angles to the bullet movement. This can be very detrimental to accuracy and needs to be smoothed or polished out so as not to damage or upset to bullets movement and to allow a consistent force to apply all around the bullet whilst it is being squeezed down in diameter. If the throat and leade are not polished through a proper running in procedure the bullet may either be damaged or end up titling slightly as it is forced into the bore resulting in uneven flight of the bullet once it has left the barrel and a wide dispersion of the shots.

 

A proper running in procedure will prevent or at least greatly reduce the likelihood of these problems from occurring and will bring the barrel up to its optimum performance as quickly as possible. In running in the barrel, the throat and leade become polished and metallic fouling will be far less likely to occur at any time later during the life of the barrel.

 

Running in Procedure

 

The most commonly used method to run-in a new barrel is to “shoot and clean” as follows:

Shoot 1 shot and clean (chamber and barrel and dry out)

Shoot 2 shots and clean

Shoot 3 shots and clean

Shoot 5 shots and clean

Shoot 5 shots and clean

Shoot 10 shots and clean

Shoot 10 shots and clean

 

for a total of 36 rounds. Use ammunition from a single batch similar to the type of ammunition that you intend to use for future shooting.

 

Note:

 

1) Be aware that jacketed bullets can have either “gilding metal” jackets or “steel” jackets. The former is the more common and are softer and nearer to pure copper. RG, Sierra, Lapua and most competition bullets are of this type. The “steel” jackets are made of a copper coated malleable steel (Tombac) and are slightly harder. This type of jacket is found in Norma, Russian and German military, and other military bullets. Whilst not detrimental to an already run-in barrel they should be avoided for running in of a new barrel.

 

2) There are two principle types of propellant powder used in rifle cartridges:

a) Extruded – which is used in most high quality or competition ammunition. The powder looks like little rods or tubes and leaves a soft fouling residue on the barrels after each shot that is easier to clean.

:lol: Ball – which is used by many other military ammunition makers (being inexpensive to make and easy to load at speed). It looks like tiny ball bearings of various sizes with the larger balls looking slightly flattened. It burns hotter than most extruded powders and leaves a hard fouling residue on the barrel wall, which is more difficult to clean, and may require more rigorous cleaning.

Do not mix extruded powder ammunition and ball powder ammunition without cleaning between the use of the two different types, otherwise further and more complex fouling problems can occur.

 

It is strongly recommended that the barrel be run in and used with gilding metal bullets and extruded powder for both easier running in and a longer accurate life for the barrel. Make sure to always clean the rifle VERY thoroughly prior to changing to a different type of ammunition during the life of the barrel. Failure to do so will result in severe fouling difficulties as a result of the interaction between the different fouling residues left behind by each type of ammunition.

 

Once the barrel has been successfully run-in, regular cleaning should occur after approximately every 40-50 rounds. The risk of metallic fouling is still very high up to about 150-200 rounds fired so it is important that attention is paid to any signs of it occurring, usually experienced by the opening up of a group or random stray shots that fall outside the group. Adhering to a cleaning after every 40-50 rounds fired is strongly recommended during this period. After the 200 rounds fired mark, it is possible to increase the number of shots before cleaning, but regular cleaning should always be part of the routine.

 

A well run-in barrel made of 416 stainless steel should give a top accuracy life of about 4,500 – 5,500 rounds after which time the groups will start to open up usually forming a hollow pattern. This life can be longer for high chromium content barrels, such as 17/4 stainless steel, up to around 8,000 – 10,000 rounds".

 

Also by the way its actually much more important to run in and clean a Stainless barrel, contary to popular misconception that's one reason why the military use Chrome Moly barrels, which incidently are run in but again you would know that.

 

I would like to think that this will put an end to it but I fear that it won't.

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Cheers smeagle, now I didnt think there was any point to breaking a barrel in until!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You posted!!!!!!!!!!! Now I do see the reason why we should and thats something I didnt know. Thats why I posted this topic. As you re aware this SHR Im getting is my 1st rifle out of the wrapper.

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