Strangely Brown Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 In the last Civilian Service Rifle meeting at Bisley; which I know at least one other member on here entered (morning Baldie! ), I only saw one person using the Hawkins position. In fact he was the winner of the Practical Optic class! Has anybody tried it, or has the bipod become the easy way to shoot, giving what I suspect in an ageing body (mine ) a better head position? To remind the none tactical shooters amongest us; the Hawkins position is usually done with the none shooting arm out straight gripping the forward sling swivel with the rifle resting on the ground if neccessary. The body can be almost at a right angle to the rifle if ground/body comfort dictates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 CSR mafia have banned it IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Brown Posted November 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 CSR mafia have banned it IIRC My take on it John was that it was allowable in Practical Optic but not Service Optic? The Bisley Bible says of Practical Optic: a No restrictions on slings or rests. b Bipods may be used , but must remain fitted at all times. c Vertical grips may be used, but must remain fitted at all times. d Trigger weight 1.5kg minimum. e No restriction on optic sights. I did wonder if the answer lay in the Service Optic restrictions? Service Optic: a No restrictions on slings. b Magazine resting is permitted, but no part of the wrist of the supporting arm may touch the ground. c Fore grips are prohibited, as are any modifications to the fore end, such as hand or sling stops, intended to faciltate an advantage with the support hand. d Bipods are prohibited. e Trigger weight 4.5 Lbs minimum. f Optic sights maximum magnification of 4.5x. My bold and underlined, which would suggest that the Hawkins is allowable in Practical Optic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I know one year they tried to stop Martin using it, must have relented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Brown Posted November 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I know one year they tried to stop Martin using it, must have relented. I think I can remember seeing him getting his kit together and walking off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Totally unnecessary, too many convoluted rules made up on a whim and never discussed with the majority that shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Hi Mick ? Cant say i,ve ever seen anyone using it, but it would only apply to bolt gunners i would think? The mag [even a 10 rounder ] on an AR would hit the ground first ? Personally, i think it should be allowed. I would hate to see CSR become bogged down in utterly stupid rules like shotgunning has, a la UKPSA etc. Not necessary. This year once i,m back fit, i,m gonna engage on a training course of shooting from a 30 rounder, mag rested and correct use of a sling for prone, instead of carrying the weight, and having to deploy a bipod. Then , im also gonna embark on excercises enabling a correct sitting position, after invaluable lessons given from Bob Whightman....hell he can shoot sitting. I initially found it extremely uncomfortable, but the position is far more stable. I,m counting the days untill the imperial buddy....i cant wait, we had such a good time last year. I may even get a place in the Diggle dogs this year....i missed out last time because of the butts injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I didn't realise you hurt your butt. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be there next year, too busy at work and probably at sea then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Yep. Then i had to sit there and listen to smelly Brian's bullshit. Gav came and took me out for a quiet sit down. Good job....i was just looking round for something to garotte Brian with....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Brown Posted November 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I,m counting the days untill the imperial buddy....i cant wait, we had such a good time last year. I may even get a place in the Diggle dogs this year....i missed out last time because of the butts injury. I may miss next year, I'm waiting for an operation on my back to remove some bone thats crushing the nerves there, they will also staple the spine so I don't quite know what mobility I will have afterwards, it could mean not doing the run down! To cheer myself up I bought an AE MkIII from Graham this week, hence the reason for this post. I should be able to shoot it off a bench so I can familiarise myself with it. Martin C uses the Hawkins position to perfection and I wondered why it wasn't used more by the Practical Optic lads, I guess a bipod is more user friendly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyH Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Is this "Hawkins Position" in the same category as the better known Missionary position? Or is it something obscure practiced by those strange and rather disturbing people who only fire rifles while clad in close fitting, very expensive, special leather garments, or with leather thongs/slings attached to their bodies - ? Can one practice it anywhere, in one's own home perhaps, or is it confined to, er, "Bisley" or whatever it was called? Is that somewhere near Katmandu? I believe all sorts of odd things go on there. I think these chaps should get out more, shooting wildlife with their rifles as Nature intended... Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Is this "Hawkins Position" in the same category as the better known Missionary position? Or is it something obscure practiced by those strange and rather disturbing people who only fire rifles while clad in close fitting, very expensive, special leather garments, or with leather thongs/slings attached to their bodies - ? Can one practice it anywhere, in one's own home perhaps, or is it confined to, er, "Bisley" or whatever it was called? Is that somewhere near Katmandu? I believe all sorts of odd things go on there. I think these chaps should get out more, shooting wildlife with their rifles as Nature intended... Tony The Hawkins was developed during ww1 I believe and gives a very stable shooting position plus it offers pretty much the lowest profile which I would guess was a major advantage when the Hun is shooting back! Rather aggree with your last comment, when you have to carry everything up and down hill a few times you pretty soon evaluate just how 'essential' your latest Carlos fandango piece of Gucci kit really is ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Maybe you should come and give it a try Tony. I grew out of killing Gods creatures quite some years ago personally. Now i like to kill cardboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Gents, bit off topic but something I've noticed re body position and shooters. The Hawkin's position I believe grew out of military history/training and every time I've seen it demonstrated the shooter was indeed at a large angle to the rifle. The more recent courses (UK snd US based theory) I've attended which were bolt rifle orientated, stressed that the 'old style' shooting with your body at and angle to the rifle was better served now with your body being in line with the rifle. The idea is you control the rifle rather than the other way round. This only matters when multiple shots are required, the priniciple is based on not intorducing a 'hinge' at your shoulder/butt joint. obviously seeing where your rifle ends up after each shot after follow thru' relative to the target and adjusting your position so the rifle bounces back on target comes in, but not having a pivot point to start with helps. I 'poo-pood' this until I tried it - it works. Brgds Terry PS don't get me started on feet position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 That's how I shoot highpower with my T2k, practiced by David Tubb and shown in his various books and DVDs. Reduces your chances of cross lane shooting as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 I was shooting using the Hawkins position at 1000 yards with a 4T weekend before last, I had to add a small bag to get some further elevation at the front sue to the nature of the firing point however once mastered the Hawkins is very effective. Down side is it always feels slightly odd for me when I first use it again. I keep meaning to try it with my AI as well which is a truer test given the higher mag 'scope and theoretically better accuracy versus the .303 Brit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Am I correct in thinking the Hawkins uses the front hand sling to arrest the recoil & the butt of the rifle is not touching your shoulder ? IF so I would not feel that comfortable using it on anything much over a 308 , ie not with a 338LM or 50 BMG . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Am I correct in thinking the Hawkins uses the front hand sling to arrest the recoil & the butt of the rifle is not touching your shoulder ? IF so I would not feel that comfortable using it on anything much over a 308 , ie not with a 338LM or 50 BMG . Sort of Chris. The Hawkins position is used to fire from uneven ground, i.e. from a depression, from a roof etc. It is very low profile and stable. It allows a shooter to remain hidden. The recoil is absorbed by the front hand and supported on same. The rifle stock is placed on the ground, under the shoulder. Hold the front sling swivel tightly…it’s easy to spot a shooter that hasn’t. ATB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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