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VarmLR

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Everything posted by VarmLR

  1. VarmLR

    Where are all the hardcore Varmint hunters gone ?

    Still here, still shooting vermin, but I don't post as much as I used to (bar recently) because forums generally ebb and flow with a lot of the same topics and information being covered. I took a break from forums for a while as I felt many had become too cliquey and if you weren't "in the clique" there could be quite a lot of disrespect floating about...not on this one I hasten to add, but certainly on another one, possibly the other main shooting forum on the UK. That one has gone downhill rapidly with a real low common denominator to the extent that many topics read as if penned by spoiIed or belligerent teenagers. I was also disillusioned by the undignified goings on in one of the UK's premier LR shooting clubs this past 18 months and really it made my mind up to keep my hobby as my hobby and with the exception of my primary club (which is like a big friendly family) I don't "do" clubs because it means necessarily having to deal with some that test the patience. I love my shooting and have done for donkey's years, from when it was part of my job to becoming my main hobby. I also take a break when, if after genuinely trying to contribute, the response sometimes is less than welcoming by the argumentative few who always know best. I have no truck with such people and do not suffer fools gladly, possibly a hang up from my past life. For all the negative there's a lot more positive on here though. It's a great place to discuss the finer points of reloading and shooting skills and join in the banter. Something was lost though with the sad loss of a few members including George and Bradders (RIP both). I try not to publish too much about what or where I shoot (bar target) as it runs the risk of becoming a target, as foxdropper has discovered, for dissent and anti's. I just don't understand how those joining a site entitled UK VARMINTING can be that way. Perhaps some have the wrong idea or wrong forum? We are under enough pressure from the outside without making things difficult for members on the inside. Of course it always pays to stay within the bounds of decency as this information is very public and we need to be ambassadors for our sport. For the most part, I have little interest in making or even watching videos. I'd rather use the time more productively, learning something new each day, perfecting skills and getting out as much as possible, which is less than I'd like these days! One thing does interest me is what everyone uses as their main vermin control rifle set-ups? For long range small ground quarry and feathered pests, I find myself pretty much sticking with the little .223 as for the UK I find it really is the Jack of all trades, and I love the variety of loads available (tight twist barrel in my case allowing 45 to 80grn). Longer range or more challenging conditions and the 6.5 comes out of the cabinet. I've sat an older Nightforce scope on top of the 223 and dial, using Strelock Pro, a handheld anemometer and also use a Leice RF...that's about all the kit I carry and have my manual ballistic charts to fall back on which I've developed for each load.
  2. VarmLR

    RS70 temperature sensitivity

    RS62 works very well with high BC 140/142 grn. Even at moderate loads I was getting decent velocities using it. Full case loads. It was RS themselves that did the QL for me on the RS62 and it does achieve full powder burn (99%) in my 24 inch barrel according to their predictions and seems more optimal in velocity terms than the RS70 and also is a little kinder on barrels when loading up to anywhere near full case levels being a lower energy powder. My load was 43.6gr for 2650fps (140 SST) in SRP brass.
  3. VarmLR

    Hunting with 6.5 creedmoor

    I've used both cals on small game, including muntjac. Bullet choice matters in either case. Too much is made about calibres and not enough on accuracy of shot placement and bullet construction. Beginners often get the advice to stick with the "more reliable" .308 but the truth is that in energy terms there's little between them but sectional density and velocity can be markedly different and a bullet that works in one well may not work in the other so well. I agree with Andrew. Not much will get up from a well placed 140gr SGK in 6.5 irrespective of deer size, and whilst the wound channel won't be quite as large as the equivalent 150grn SGK in .308, I've yet to get a runner with one. I have had runners with the .308 and I've seen deer heart shot run 100yds before dropping which on examination has a large chunk of their ticker missing! Switching to HILAR bullet placement has made kills much more reliable IME and loading and practising for accuracy gives confidence in CNS area being hit. If I I can't hit it or there's any doubt, I wont take the shot, where someone faced with a deer side on even if moving might be tempted to take an engine room shot. Be it .243/6.5 or .308, a CNS hit will result in a bang-flop every shot. After discovering this I'm bemused as to why organisations like the BDS still propose the engine room as the most reliable shot when experience shows that's just not the case. The other thing which steered me towards the HILAR placement was that especially when using the .308 on Muntjac, well placed boiler room shots were still bursting the stomach ands gut through hydraulic action. Far less so when hit anywhere in the CNS area. My take on ther cal thing. Buy both, shoot both, enjoy both. 308 would be my choice for boar. There's a reason it's still one of the worlds most popular calibers. It works well on medium and some large game. The 6.5 has the legs at distance so if shooting over terrain like NZ where shooting across valleys often results in 600plus yd distances, I'd pick the 6,5 or 7mm-08 over the .308 as BC matters more where distances and windage make things more difficult. It's not really something to generalise on, but just apply a little thought and there's good arguments for both. For the UK, I'd still rather have the 6.5 as it's so much sweeter shooting, and using SGKs it's a very reliable stopper and superbly accurate. The .308 is fine and no more expensive to load for but my personal choice would be the 6.5 as I just get on better with it. If I wanted a day on boar though, I'd pick up the .308. In that case, the option of a much heavier projectile and a wider wound channel shot over relatively short distances are the ideal tool for boar.
  4. VarmLR

    Load development

    Laurie also wrote some very informative articles on both LR and SR comparisons published in accurateshooter.com and targetshooter.co.uk
  5. VarmLR

    308 hunting loads

    I use 150gr SGK and either 43.8gr N140 or RS50 (same charge for both works well). Sub moa load in my T3.
  6. VarmLR

    Load development

    Just don't mix up KVB 223's with the 223M versions! Despite calling them the "KVB223" imho these are unsuitable for chamber pressures in 223, and in SR 6.5x47 and 6.5CM. Cup thickness for the KVB-223 is 0.020" and for the 223M is 0.025" but AFAIK the charge type/mass is the same so they're not a "hot" variety. I found out at my cost not to use .02" cup primers in my 223 where I experienced some blown primers and gas-cut bolt faces on charges that were within acceptable published limits. The SR brass for 6.5's should use the thicker Magnum moniker primers, such as CCI450 and KVB-223M to reduce risks of blowing primers, especially when loading "hot".
  7. VarmLR

    Load development

    I use the Muron KVB 223M for both the 223 and 6.5 SR primer brass. I haven't yet tried the 450's but have a batch of them here so might try them and see whether I get a similar result.
  8. VarmLR

    Load development

    That''s a very valid point Mark and one which doesn't seem to be widely recognised. I must admit that it's ES I work on and usually pay little store on Sd from low count groups especially. It's still worth noting though (and pretty inescapable) that smallest groups, unless consistent/repeatable, are not always a reliable indicator of low ES. Low vertical dispersion can be a better indicator but at 100 yds I still use ES together with group size because I've seen too many large ES groups still fall into similar group sizes as low ones on a one off OCW test. By "large" I mean too large if considering optimal charge weight for long distance (I try for ES10 but for my vermin shooting where longest range tends to be inside 400yds, 15 to 20 is acceptable). Anything over 20 and I look for a different bullet or primer if I can't optimise on charge/seating distance.
  9. VarmLR

    Going shooting during Covid-19

    That's almost bang-on what my FEO advised a week ago. It is permissible to travel short (reasonably) distances to reach a permission where pest control is thought essential by the landowner and your services are requested AFAIK. ie...the decision to go ultimately is taken by the shooter at the shooter's risk but if at the behest of a farmer during lambing for example, and you don't have far to travel and can exercise social distancing, licensing in my neck of the woods are happy with that. Doesn't apply to stalking or any form of recreational shooting, including for the "purpose of exercise" for which no driving anywhere is currently permitted.
  10. Mine was a 7.5 for a 6.5 cal, so perhaps 6.5 for the 224?
  11. VarmLR

    Accuracy, how much is down to the press?

    One of the LR distance groups' world record was held for years using ammo loaded on inexpensive Lee kit. Whilst it would be nice to have a slightly stiffer frame (no sniggering at the back🙄) the Lee Breachlock Challenger does me. It has a few annoying traits like the wooden ball handle keeps falling off (me being too lazy to epoxy it on), the collection tube for spent primers regularly drops off spilling primers all over the floor, and the primer seater often falls out of the holder when depriming cases....err....not selling it am I 🤣 Fancied a change to an RCBS Rockchucker but the Lee does ok for the outlay. Lee dies of late I don't think are as well finished as they used to be. I still have a pace setter set from a few years back which is fine but have also invested in dome Redding dies which I think are better, especially the VLD seater with micrometer setting on it. Music? 1812 usually reminds me to put more powder into the cases, but usually I listen to R4Extra for the older stories and the noon funny hour which takes the monotony out of case prep.
  12. VarmLR

    Going shooting during Covid-19

    Yes. I'd only add to that sensible advice, especially where deer are concerned, that prior thought is given to how they might be handled being mindful of the need for social distancing. If it can't be done without social contact, I guess the simple answer is "don't do it". Personally, (and it is personal opinion) I can't see any desperate need for controlling deer presently with the possible exception of preventing imminent crop damage. Conversely, for many, lambing season will justify corvid and fox control. People will do what people will need to do and as grown ups I'm sure we're mindful of what is sensible and what is not, irrespective of the mud that some forums are slinging around. As for SD members, there are a few good ones (especially the few that also frequent UKV ;-)). The members who took over those particular recent debates need to do some growing up. They demonstrated pack mentality of the lowest common denominator. Their opinions are not authority and shutting down of discussions in such a manner does them no favours to the shooting community. Talk about own goals! Best leave that one there.
  13. VarmLR

    First round blues

    Could it simply be a warming barrel? I've seen this many times with lighter sporting barrels where shot one, and sometimes shot 2 are off, with the rest forming a relatively consistent group as the barrel warms on the string, only for the groups to go "off" again after 5 or 6 shots. As Terry says, it may just be one of those things to note with that particular load with that particular rifle. The only other culprit I can think of is change of cheek weld which affects parallax of the sight picture. In fact that's something I needed to specifically work on before I realised it was having a massive impact on my group consistency in the early years. Sometimes it is an unconscious action whereby your eye comes to rest fractionally off from the first shot as you settle back into a string. It tended to be the first few shots with me before I settled into better discipline. Once I did, the results started getting better...a lot better, so it had nothing to do with the rifle in the end.
  14. VarmLR

    Cleaning - Bisley bore cleaner

    The oil's fine. I used the bore cleaner for my shotguns but it's not much cop for rifles I found. I use KG1 for carbon removal and Wipeout for copper removal.
  15. VarmLR

    Going shooting during Covid-19

    Agreed.
  16. VarmLR

    RS70 temperature sensitivity

    Thing is the range of temperatures in the UK isn't that wide and the accepted wisdom is load for say a 15 degree day for load dev, allowing 15fps 5 degrees either way (RS62) which isn't out of the way. It's when things pick up to 30 degrees or ammo is left in direct sunlight that things can become more interesting...and potentially dangerous if you continue to shoot with cases showing pressure signs. Whilst not as much of an issue with other cals/brass which show pressure signs much more readily, the danger with 6.5CM, especially with SR primers (remember if using SR, you ought to be using magnum thickness primer cases due to the pressures involved) is that you could be well over pressure and the primers won't necessarily show this. Keeping an eye on case heads helps. Yes, RS is temperature sensitive. It's 3fps per degree by my reckoning above. What it has going in its favour though is that looking at pressure V's MV charts, it;'s velocity gain is way more uniform, as in close to a straight line, than many other powders. Looking at some of my N140 data, it tends to show fairly stable at hott-ish loads for between 10 to 20 degrees, with some velocity gains but above this the pressure rise steepens right up with velocity creating some potentially dangerous situations. I loaded some 175TMKs for Warminster a few years back and did the load dev at about 16 degrees. I loaded within recommended limits and saw no pressure signs at all with any of my loads. At an ambient 25 degrees (or thereabouts) at Warminster the first few shots seemed to kivk like a mule and I experienced a sticky bolt on the second so stopped shooting and examined the cases. They were heavily marked with ejector marks and the primers were pancake flat. Yes, N140 wasn't ideal but I didn't have any N150 at the time. I switched to RS50 and despite being re-labelled TR140, having very similar bulk density and energy to N140 (load data is almost interchangeable) it shares the more uniform velocity gains with pressure I found using RS62, so I never experienced such violent pressure spikes when using it. I still use RS62 because for most of the year it gives me minuscule ragged hole groups and I've settled on two rounds which work really well with it (139 Scenar and 140gr SSTs for hunting and vermin bashing, although I tend to use the 223 more for that). The above relates to my own data and may not be representative of what others have found as it relates to my rifles, brass, primer choice and bullet choice, so take it or leave it with that in mind.
  17. VarmLR

    Going shooting during Covid-19

    I tend to agree. The restrictions are designed to flatten the peak to help the NHS to cope, and quite rightly so, not about reducing risks to individuals to nothing as that's cloud cuckoo...we're told that most of us will get it at some point or other and if we are unfortunate enough to contract the more aggressive form, the NHS needs to be able to deal with those numbers at any point in time. At the moment it's all about the maths. Personally, the risk associated of travelling to a permission close by to undertake say pest control are being grossly over stated and exaggerated imho. They've almost become straw man arguments designed to panic us. The real danger is in social contact and there's more danger of that out walking to get your 1 hour of exercise a day or whatever. I've seen it myself on the Cotswold Way where out for a 30 minute walk it was like wading across Picadilly Circus! People in large groups, dogs walkers stopping for a chat, even families out picnicking! People handling gates, touching styles, passing in close proximity. That, for me, was the last straw and I will be choosing more unsociable hours for my walks in future. In contrast, jumping into your car and travelling 3 or 4 miles to your permission on largely deserted roads and not coming into contact with anyone (letting the landowner know by phone when you arrive) carries little risk...lets be honest about this. Glos licensing has confirmed that pest control during lambing is fine provided all social contact has been avoided. I have it in black and white. However I haven't been tempted to wander out, despite repeated requests by the landowner that employs me to undertake these things because I don't yet know what Uniform's standing orders are on the matter. I've left that back with the feo who will check and get back to me next week. Until then, I'm staying put. The state overnight has been handed more controls over it's governed people than at any time in living memory, and even churches, with freedom of religion and to practice it protected from the times of the Magna Carta, have been ridden roughshod over when in many cases there are means by which controls could be exercised to safeguard the faithful and the clergy...since when did fundamental beliefs and the associated sacraments cease being essential? They're certainly essential for the health of the souls of the faithful. I find some of the contradictions at play confusing at best. Look at the underground in London...services paired back to the bone so that those reduced numbers of commuters are now packed in like baked beans making their risks worse, not better! We're living through some very worrying times folks. All just imho and I don't for one second condone anything that genuinely increases risk to people or would be illicit. It's healthy to discuss these things and what civil liberties are left presently, it's important that we can freely be allowed to discuss these things without things descending into the childish bun fight that happened over on SD with some surprising aggression shown there, choice language and insults flying about left right and centre. What is happening to people, seriously? Such behaviour is never something I see as acceptable as it denies the human dignity of others.
  18. VarmLR

    Going shooting during Covid-19

    My Glos feo says same thing BUT uniform have been out stopping people and there are reports of those with firearms travelling to permissions for pest control being handed warnings.
  19. One of the reasons I didn't renew my membership unfortunately. Life's too short to have to deal with such people.
  20. VarmLR

    RS70 temperature sensitivity

    Welcome EMC I think that RS62 seems to be the more popular choice of RS powder for the 6.5VM which is no surprise given that it's energy is very similar to Hodgson H4350, the universal match prior to restrictions on powders coming about limiting choice. RS powders do have some issues with temperature sensitivity but in my own experience, less so than Vhitavouri, where I've experienced some really unwanted pressure spikes with N140 in warmer weather. The difference in MVs between a 139 Lapua Scenar and RS62 tested at 10 Celcius and again at 22 Celcius (same primers and cases) was notable . 10 degrees gave 2665 fps and 22 degrees gave 2701 fps (5 shot averages). I don't know how this might compare with RS70 but one advantage with RS62 is that powder kernals are camphor coated to aid better temperature sensitivity.
  21. VarmLR

    Going shooting during Covid-19

    I've had to inform the landowner I do pest control for that whilst the FEO has said that pest control during lambing is fine, travelling to the farm may not be. Uniform have been out stopping cars and if you have to travel to your permission, you risk having your FAC revoked, a fine and confiscation of firearms. A lot of mixed messages. The exception I think relates to those living adjacent the land they shoot on, those farm workers considered as essential workers travelling to their places of work but that may not apply to recreational shooters who undertake pest control.
  22. VarmLR

    Load development

    Yes, I'd agree with that. I try and aim for 10 on ES as a reasonable target. Any less would be nice but tbh, environmental factors, changes in wind, poor reading of conditions and slight inconsistencies of technique count for more error and inconsistency. At 30fps though I'd not be happy and work on it until it's closer to just into double figures. I'll qualify that and say that's what I'd personally aim for, for my vermin control rounds and target rounds. For shooting deer under 100yds it doesn't make a scrap of difference whether 10 or 50 provided you have a reasonable group and the right bullet for the job at the right MV.
  23. VarmLR

    Load development

    Trouble is though Pops that it's not necessarily always the case at 100 yds as differences in velocity of 30 or 40 fps make very little difference and can easily fall within an MOA group at that distance given a reasonably swift enough MV. Arguably though, we're looking more towards quarter moa depending on barrel/load/shooter capabilities, so then I'd probably agree with you in principle. It's only once out beyond 300yds that BC and stability really starts showing up more in terms of group size. I've shot some groups with the 223 which were all sub moa at 100 yds, but the same loads at 300yds (flat base G1 profile bullets) were miles apart. Groups rarely tell the whole story but finding a node where harmonics promote better group consistency is key. OCW, find the nodes, tune the node (if needed) after trying a few 5 shot groups and crack on.
  24. VarmLR

    Load development

    Depends on range to be shot. I use OCW and am concerned about SD/ES for the simple reason that just because group sizes show as consistent at short range, the same may not be true further out when velocity drops off. That's why low SD/ES figures matter for longer distances. You may get low vertical dispersion on a one off group at 100yds showing mediocre or high ES but extrapolated to even 600 yds and that dispersion will likely be higher than the larger group at 100yds with lower ES. The purpose of OCW is twofold: First to find an economical and repeatable (reliable) solution to discovering your barrel's node points for any given bullet/.powder combo and secondly to be able to fine tune to identify where those same nodes show lowest ES/SD. I have to admit that over several years trial and error, there is generally some correlation between the sweet spot for at least two nodes for any given load development and reasonably tight ES/SD, but that really does depend on care with case prep and load consistency. Without being quite careful, you may still end up with similar node points but slightly looser ES/SD and that's generally fine for getting into a ballpark and then refining the load more, or for closer distances, especially where you have no access to a chrony. What some do, including myself, is to select those node points and then load a further three or so groups of 5 at each to prove a statistically relevant group size can be had. If it cannot, then back to the drawing board!
  25. This. It's not so much choosing a bullet in the middle of the accepted wisdom on weight limits for twist but on the best form factor for weight to achieve the most stable outcome. Brian Litz's Applied Ballistics charts are your friend...
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