Scopes

[Orka Akinse]

As you know from my other recent posts, I'm now in the mkt for a more serious scope for longrange shooting.

 

Would anyone like to write an informative scope review and post their findings both Pro's and Cons etc?

 

Subject manufactures might include [but not limited to]:

 

S&B

Hensoldt

Zeiss

IOR

etc

 

write up headings might include:

 

Technical specs

Availability of specific features e.g. metric or imperial / First Focal Plane vs Second Focal Plane

Illum Ret

Ret types & availability

 

etc

[brown dog]

....paging ds1; paging ds1.

[1967spud]

ive got a march on the way ill do a write up soon for you

[ds1]

Hi BD, well I already pm`ed OA to say I was flogging a USO.

 

I`ll have a stab at a few others though. Firstly if it is for target / F class use the top three would be March 10-60 maybe 8-80, S&B 12-50x56 and Nightforce 8-32 or 12-42. Not used the March but had Robs S&B at 50x and my 42x NXS side by side - S&B had much more FOV and better glass / image. At 100m the resolution was much better than the NXS. However at about 225m resolving nail heads I did not see much difference in resolution if any - the S&B was brighter. My feeling is the S&B is an out and out target scope - no illumination, no 0.1milrad clicks. The Nightforce NXS 12-42x56 is sort of plod comp friendly with illumination for the odd night shoot.

 

The 24/ 25x scope market is full of great tacticool scopes. I liked the image on the Zeiss 6-24x56 vm/v and Hendsoldt 6-24x72 best. Did not like them being 2FP and the Zeiss tube is thin - seen ring marks that cracked the scope tube. Main negative at the time with Hendsoldt was a 2 year only warranty - field use (this may have changed now Hendsoldt have a US distributor HUDISCO).

 

The top dog to beat in this class is the S&B 5-25x56, it does everything so well if you want a tactical scope - depending on what sort of field use you do it could be too big. Some Hensoldt FFP 4-16x50 scopes score very well here. The two state side competitors to the 25x S&B seem to be Premier and USO. Not used a Premier but I have compared several 22 / 25x USO TPal and ERGO scopes aganist my 25x S&B scopes at different times of day, lighting conditions etc for a couple of months - only difference was resolution on the USO scope was a bit better for my eyes, otherwise depends what feature set you want. Would add also that USO are great people to deal with.

 

David.

[Mash67]

OA

i have a IOR which you are more than welcome to come over and have a go with.just give me a pm with a phone number 6-24 x 50 free after 1pm sun (today) if youre intrested

matt

[Elwood]

I have the NF NXS 12-42x56 and the S&B 12-50x56

 

The glass on the S&B leaves the NF for dead, no real surprise there.

 

The turrets on the NF are more user friendly, but it's easier to get lost in the revolutions. You would have to be shooting at serious long range to get on to the second turn of the drum with the S&B, I did manage it once using my 6BR out to 1200 yards, but the trade of with that is that each click is much finer than the NF.

 

For an all round scope which would be more than capable of 1000 yard F class and knocking over fox's or deer then the NF 8-38x56 using the NP2DD reticle would be my choice.

If you go for the S&B get the sport dot fine reticle and not the sport dot.

 

Purely for target shooting I would have the big S&B, I have looked through a March and it was very good indeed, what I didn't like was the five year warranty.

[brown dog]

David,

 

Don't suppose you've got pics of the various scopes that you've assessed first-hand over the years? I reckon you'd have enough material for a small book! But certainly would be great for a bit of visualisation.

 

I've always been intrigued by the Hensoldt 4-16; it's tiny (shown here against a 3-12 S& but I wouldn't know where to get one - annoyingly a few years back I saw one for sale s/h at Macleod's but was too slow off the mark.

 

I notice York Guns have a 5-25 premier advertised - if I had a buckshee £2k I'd be on the phone now

 

 

OA,

 

Some great advice in the preceding posts; I think you have to decide how 'targety' you want it to be. For 'targety' I reckon the consensus is that you need to get to at least 25 power. For stalking & inanimate long range plinking a 4-16 will do it as a great compromise of bulk/weight vs power.

 

Other thoughts:

 

Personally, I absolutely hate micrometer type turrets; too easy to biff the elevation by being a whole turn out.

 

Nightforce; probably the best value option; but will drive you down the imperial 2nd focal plain route. They also have a very narrow field of view - a big minus for stalking use.

 

I have a feeling that a s/h 5-25 Schmidt is in your future (FFP!) it's just a question of finding one for sale (that's not code; I'm keeping mine !)

[ds1]

BD, Markus at Finnaccuracy does Hensoldts. Possibly ide Germany is cheaper.

 

A bit of eye candy.

 

S&B 5-25x56 at the bottom, USO 5-25x58 TPal middle, USO sn9 top.

 

 

A few USO scopes on rifles.

 

 

Leupold 8-25x50 and Swaro 6-24x50. I liked the Leupold!!

 

 

For a small scope I lovemy USO 1.8-10x37 ERGO. For ref barrel is 10 1/2"

 

 

Will see how the NXS stands up to recoil

 

[TC]

I've always been intrigued by the Hensoldt 4-16; it's tiny (shown here against a 3-12 S& but I wouldn't know where to get one - annoyingly a few years back I saw one for sale s/h at Macleod's but was too slow off the mark.

 

Wow, that is tiny.

 

I have a 3-20 PMII on order to sit on my 6BR - I was offered a deal which switched my money from the Zeiss Diavari 6-24 which I'd still recommend taking a look at/through. The 3-20 should ship in December and details are on the German S&B site.

 

The 3-20 sits between the 3-12 and the 4-16 size wise and is of course way smaller than the 5-25 which just dwarfs a field rifle - of course looking at DS1's pics it is all relative when sat next to those USO's

 

Tony

[Orka Akinse]

Tony

 

I have looked on the S&B website and can't seem to locate the scope speacs you have on order. Would you post them or the link please? It sounds like its just what I'm looking for.

 

OA

[brown dog]

http://www.schmidtundbender.de/index.php?o...7&task=view

 

put the link into google translate if you want to see the site in english.

[Chris-NZ]

Geez, those USO SN9s are huge.

You'd need a bearer to cart the rifle around

 

Chris-NZ

[TC]

http://www.schmidtundbender.de/index.php?o...7&task=view

 

put the link into google translate if you want to see the site in english.

 

Thats that's the chap..

 

P4 Fine, Illuminated, double turn, FFP , 0.1 Mrad clicks.

 

I'm sure it will be a great scope but I don't expect to see one much before the new year.

 

Tony

[Orka Akinse]

Tony

 

Before I run off and place my order would you mind PM'ing me a rough price for the scope and who you are dealing with for the order?

 

Best wishes

 

OA

[TC]

Tony

 

Before I run off and place my order would you mind PM'ing me a rough price for the scope and who you are dealing with for the order?

 

Best wishes

 

OA

 

Mine is coming from a lad in Germany that owes me a favour and claims some contact with the factory - time will tell. I'm not in any rush thankfully.

 

For the UK I believe York Guns are now the sole importer and will set the pricing, I'm not sure it has been announced but I'd take a guess at around £2200. The price of S&B has gone up so much over recent years that if you can find a 3-4 year old 5-25 and get it for the original new price they look like a bargain !

 

Tony

[Alycidon]

ive got a march on the way ill do a write up soon for you

 

 

I had a peer through a March fixed power (50X?) BR scope at the weekend, they certainly build a very bright optic and a good reticule for target shooting. I see they do make lower powered hunting variables with some good looking rets but at Ziess/S&B price levels they I would want a side by side comparison in low light for all round use. However for daytime paper punching they look excellent.

 

A

[ChrisF]

I have the following scopes ,

 

S&B PMII 4-16x50mm

 

S&B PMII 5-25x56mm

 

Premier 3-15x50mm

 

Premier 5-25x56mm

 

 

The 2 things I donot like about the Premiers , are the CCW ( counterclockwise ) knobs , and they way the camlocks/adjustments work , when you zero , ie slip the knob back to zero , once done sighting in , you actually still feel the clicks while slipping .

 

At the moment , I am mainly sticking with S&B PMIIs .

 

I will however be looking at the following I they meet certain specs , ie FFP , mil/mil & CW ( knobs ) .

 

They are the Hensoldt 4-16x56mm , the new March Tactical 2.5-25x42mm , and I wish the Hensoldt 6-24x72mm was a FFP .

 

With the Hensoldts , I donot like the para/illum knob design sticking out soo far .

 

 

 

I would like a manufactor to look at a Truely ELR scope mount system ( because , no one makes a good one ) .

 

I donot know exactly HOW it would look or work , but here's a stab at IT .

 

I would use knobs like on the DT S&Bs .

 

The scope adjustments 0.05 mils ,

 

The Elevation knob , Single Turn , with stop .

 

The Windage knob , Double Turn , indicated ( like S&B )

 

The mount , this would be where the large/bulk Elevation setting takes place , ie the front mount would be hinged , and some type of rear adjustment done .

 

SO setting a firing solution , would involve 3 settings , setting a course & fine Elevation adjustment & a windage adjustment .

 

Would be FFP , mag range some where in the 10-40x varipower , front lens 72mm , flouride lens , nice balanced reticle .

 

It would be something different .

 

And made by either S&B , Hensoldt or March .

 

 

Cheers Chris

[Scotch_egg]

Calling Lee from Border Barrels to this thread, have you got a price for the new IOR FFP scopes with mil/mil and digital illumination?

 

 

I have currently got 2 IOR's a plain 4.5-14x50 on my stalking rifle and a 3-18x42 on my .20 Tac

 

The 3-18x42 is great I have shot out 467 yards and could just about make out my hits at this range with the tiny 5mm holes, tracking was spot on and the colour was up there with my S&B and swaro fixed scopes.

 

I was dialing with confidence. However I am yet to play in poor light with this scope. Latest so far was 20.00 hours.

 

I fancy a PM11 but need to find the cash......

[Scotch_egg]

Forgot to say is it just me or is the US optics SN9 FUGLY?

 

 

It looks heavy and far to big to be practical.

 

How could you get in low and concealed with a scope bigger than J LO's ass.....

[ds1]

Chris, looking at your specs for a ELR scope you end up more or less defining a uso sn9, the system works on a front hinged ball joint and movable external rear erector cell - hence the ability to select "click" incraments eg 0.5mil, 1/8moa, 1/4 MOA etc. No other scope offers FFP, +40x with illumitated reticule. Also the 80mm objective at 42x gives according to Dawes theory better resolution than you will get from a S&B 50x or March 60x or 80x with 56mm objective. The external adjustment system also offers no internal crap. The illumination saddle however does limit the possible placement of the erector cell and it is big and long but still usable - finnished 14th at an international comp only out to 500m 2 years ago involving a lot of sitting shooting (not ideal but usable). It also has at least 160 MOA of usable elevation so seems suitable for an ELR rifle which is also not going to be small or light....think my AW50 is about 14kg.

 

The other way of skinning the cat would be a NXS 42x with Ivey or Gantry? mount or rail. Also Barrett do a ring set where you can set the MOA in the rings to 15MOA or 40MOA. I'm still considering this option for a 2500m Russian mil comp but need to get a good supply of IMI 50 cal brass first before experimenting. I know before I start the NSX resolution is not up to the USO but could be adequate.

 

David.

[brown dog]

I'm still considering this option for a 2500m Russian mil comp

 

Wow! Love to hear more! (Need a No2?! )

 

but need to get a good supply of IMI 50 cal brass first before experimenting.

Sounds like a kidney is shortly going to be up in the 'for sale' section

[ds1]

Hi BD, a kidney and liver I think looking at the price of Lapua 800 grain vld pills. 50 cal is not for the faint of wallet.

 

Anyway heres a link to Dawes resolution. Interestingly the author Fred Bohl tested a couple of March scopes and found they slightly exceeded the Dawes resolution theory.

 

http://www.twincityrodandgun.com/PDF%20fil...opeRes-Mag1.pdf

[Lee]

Calling Lee from Border Barrels to this thread, have you got a price for the new IOR FFP scopes with mil/mil and digital illumination?

 

 

I have currently got 2 IOR's a plain 4.5-14x50 on my stalking rifle and a 3-18x42 on my .20 Tac

 

The 3-18x42 is great I have shot out 467 yards and could just about make out my hits at this range with the tiny 5mm holes, tracking was spot on and the colour was up there with my S&B and swaro fixed scopes.

 

I was dialing with confidence. However I am yet to play in poor light with this scope. Latest so far was 20.00 hours.

 

I fancy a PM11 but need to find the cash......

 

Scotch_egg

 

sorry for the late reply LOL!! I dont really browse this forum much.

 

anyway to answer your question, there is only a few of the new FFP scopes ready at the moment that I can order by request. I don't plan stocking them because we never really get many requests for FFP scopes.

 

3.5-18x50/IL with digi IL in MILS and SH1 ret £1280

6-24x56/IL with digi IL in MILS and SH1 ret £1132

 

not sure why the 3.5-18 is more? could be the zoom factor?

 

Lee