Ziess No 60 reticule

[Alycidon]

After I found a low light issue recently with my NSX I have been thinking about a Ziess No 60 reticule in their Victory FL 4x16x50.

 

What size is that dot?. The dot is in the 2FP therefore remains constant sized. If I am reading things here right

 

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A800347580/Embed..._Absehen_EN.pdf

 

then at 100 meters it is 22mm when at 10x, at 300mm that would be almost unusable on a rabbit etc as the dot would cover all of it but I suppose winding the mag up would help but then the side bars get bigger.

 

Any thoughts or ideas?, the change wont happen this year but an NP2DD in a Ziess or S&B would be good.

 

 

A

[garyw]

After I found a low light issue recently with my NSX I have been thinking about a Ziess No 60 reticule in their Victory FL 4x16x50.

 

What size is that dot?. The dot is in the 2FP therefore remains constant sized. If I am reading things here right

 

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A800347580/Embed..._Absehen_EN.pdf

 

then at 100 meters it is 22mm when at 10x, at 300mm that would be almost unusable on a rabbit etc as the dot would cover all of it but I suppose winding the mag up would help but then the side bars get bigger.

 

Any thoughts or ideas?, the change wont happen this year but an NP2DD in a Ziess or S&B would be good.

 

A-bought the diavari model on saturday the dot remains constant-i had it side by side with

my nightforce

and the image is a lot sharper out past 500yds.the edge of the glass gives a cleaner picture even at 100yds my mincers aint the best but i did notice a differance i bought this scope after talking to a few on here thanks to Alan[sir slots]for his input a bit more wedge than a nf but i chopped a few scopes in and a little cash now the scope is on my cooper for now i will see how it fairs with the lamp but i know its going to be a winner.in my view european optics beat the opposition for my type of shooting .

buy one -you know you want to.

[Alycidon]

I have had a Diavari C 3x9x36 for almost 20 years, it is my best scope by a distance outperforming bigger Swaro and NSX in low light.

 

So assuming you have this 60 reticule what is the dot diameter at 100 yards or so, I think Alan when I saw him has mill dots on his but I did not dare have a peep through his, wallet pain would follow if I did .

 

A

[pat]

Alycidon,

 

That document doesn't seem to cover the scope you're interested in, it is a new product. That said, according to the info it is part of the Diavari as opposed to the Varipoint range (1st AND 2nd FP detail). Page 7 covers the No. 60 reticle in 2FP on Diavari and shows that the dot subtension is 3cm at 100m at 6x power, at 10x it would be 1.8cm and at 16x it would be 1.125cm, just marginally larger than the click value (1cm at 100m). That should prove quite usable at 16x out to a long distance but.....

 

The question will be what magnification will be usable in low light, and what coverage that will yield at that setting. As a typical rule of thumb, with a 50mm objective you will get good clarity and an adequately bright image at 8x, being the new FL glass it may well work at 12x, but I suspect 16x may be a bit of an ask, unless you're out with the lamp or there is good moonlight. I would therefore base the coverage on 10x just to be safe, which is 1.8cm at 100m, and of course 5.4cm at 300m. You may not be able to try going for head shots on rabbits at that distance, but body shots sound like they'll be feasible.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Pat.

[Alycidon]

Alycidon,

 

That document doesn't seem to cover the scope you're interested in, it is a new product. That said, according to the info it is part of the Diavari as opposed to the Varipoint range (1st AND 2nd FP detail). Page 7 covers the No. 60 reticle in 2FP on Diavari and shows that the dot subtension is 3cm at 100m at 6x power, at 10x it would be 1.8cm and at 16x it would be 1.125cm, just marginally larger than the click value (1cm at 100m). That should prove quite usable at 16x out to a long distance but.....

 

The question will be what magnification will be usable in low light, and what coverage that will yield at that setting. As a typical rule of thumb, with a 50mm objective you will get good clarity and an adequately bright image at 8x, being the new FL glass it may well work at 12x, but I suspect 16x may be a bit of an ask, unless you're out with the lamp or there is good moonlight. I would therefore base the coverage on 10x just to be safe, which is 1.8cm at 100m, and of course 5.4cm at 300m. You may not be able to try going for head shots on rabbits at that distance, but body shots sound like they'll be feasible.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Pat.

 

 

I mostly shoot at 8x and at night almost never shoot much over 200 yards with the majority of foxes being 80-150 yards. As a hunting dot at those ranges then it should be a goer but go out to a daytime 400 yard rabbit and its hiding behind the dot !!. Its a 3 inch dot or thereabouts, NP2DD would be .187 x 4 = .748 so about 19mm, about what the Ziess is at 100m.

 

 

Food for thought anyway, thanks for your input.

 

A

[22/250 foxer]

i would just get it anyway ive been saving up for a victory and when i final got the dosh in my hand i went to order one from uttings with 60 retical

 

to be told the older model 6x24x56 wont be stocked anymore and there waiting for the new fl range to come in.

 

gutted. i looked everywhere for the older model asked about different places and none had the older model in stock with the 60 rectical

 

i cant aford the new fl model in 6x24x56 so was thinking abotu the new 4x16x50. but it is less mag then i got on my conquest and still more to buy then the older 6x24x56 victory so could go through with it

 

anyway after hearing all the good reports on them. i had to have a older model zeiss and now have found one it should land on my matt at the end of next week.

 

got it off a lad from uk longrange 1300 pound which should turn out to be a bargain. it hasnt got the 60 ret which i wanted

but seeing alans long range shooting on youtube with his ir mildot ret victory

 

i new it would be fine. i will let you no how i get on with it

 

maybe it would be worth thinking about a mildot one in 4x16x50 for you ? if your worried abot the 60 covering a rabbits head

 

if i cant i will just get it changed at zeiss

[Alycidon]

There is no hurry at the moment, my rifle shooting is mainly summer and daylight or lamp for which my current NSX is fine. I have 6mm with a Swaro PVS on it for the dodgy situations if it comes to it. After using NP2DD I do like that tiny dot. Looks like March have a nice set up as well, look at the thread elswehere here.

 

I prefer to range and dial so a mill dot is useless to me especially in 2FP as the aiming point changes with the mag , the first dot is 4 moa at best down, thats 300 yards or more on most calibers. I dont shoot that far normally.

 

A

[skany]

I have the 60ret in 6-24xflavor & its plenty small for long range shots on high mag!

 

Not as small as the np2d but still useable on long range stuff!

 

and much better for foxing as i dont need to light the ret !yey!!

 

cheers Andy

[garyw]

BIT OF A FIELD TEST.

lamping with my diavari thurs night 1 dog fox at 185 paces 3cubs all at 90-100paces.this was past 12.00 and with a lance variable at a low setting the illuminated dot makes the target very easy to acquire.this was with no more than 12x.

and today off the bonnet of the truck shooting rabbits on a freshly cut silage field on 6x furthest shot 212paces nearest 85 the detail and clarity picked out by the scope is more than a match for my nf that is on my .22br.well worth the extra money.

and its getting a go tonight lamping again. i cant see the other rifles getting a run out for the moment a few safe queens im afraid.

[blackjack]

shooting rabbits with mine last evening shot 8 between 225-325 yds no dramas dot does not cover the rabbit. nuff said.

[Alycidon]

shooting rabbits with mine last evening shot 8 between 225-325 yds no dramas dot does not cover the rabbit. nuff said.

 

 

That is the answer I was looking for, thanks guys, need to save a few pennies now !!

 

A

[20Tac]

That is the answer I was looking for, thanks guys, need to save a few pennies now !!

 

A

 

I've got the 60 reticle on the 6-24, and as others have said, works just fine on long range rabbits/crows. The prices of these Zeiss scopes never stops going up - the 6-24x56 and the 6-24x72 are now very expensive bits of kit in FL format. The new 4-16 doesn't seem to be as bad. Zeiss have also, rather stupidly in my view, stopped doing the 0.5cm clicks at 100m and now only do 1cm clicks. They have also deleted the target style adjustment turret for the windage (leaving only the elevation adjustment with the same turret as before), so that now has a traditional small cap such as on the smaller scopes. Can't see that being too popular.

[Alycidon]

Think you can spec the extra target turret as an option but at the ranges I shoot I dont use much windage anyway.

 

A

[22/250 foxer]

Alycidon did you get a zeiss in the end ? i really wanted the 60 ret but now im more then happy with the mildot. i would like to see the 60 still just to see what it is like in the field.

 

as a matter of fact im thinking of buying the one in the sales and sell it on or my one if i like the 60 ret.

 

sod paying the fl zeiss prices !

[Alycidon]

Alycidon did you get a zeiss in the end ? i really wanted the 60 ret but now im more then happy with the mildot. i would like to see the 60 still just to see what it is like in the field.

 

as a matter of fact im thinking of buying the one in the sales and sell it on or my one if i like the 60 ret.

 

sod paying the fl zeiss prices !

 

 

So far I have done nothing on that issue and will now leave alone till next year at least, I want to have a hands on look through one and a S&B, West Mids GF would be the place but I cant get away, Sept in my industry (stoves) is like December in a toy shop !!..

 

Since my initial post I have been to Scotland stalking and turned down a possible medal head as it was to far to my PPC, so I am thinking of a bigger boomer or opening the bolt face of my PPC up to accommodate a BR case, don't think the Borden HS action on it will allow anything bigger. Maybe 6.5 Grendel or 6.5BR might be conceivable.

 

I am also looking to out my Shilen barrelled 10/22 and add a bit of lightweight reach possibly with a 17AH that has been offered to me, I will need a lightweight scope for that having sold my VX3 a while ago but I could pop the little Ziess on it and put my Pecar 2x7x35 on my other semi 22LR.

 

So in short I have several projects that have now forced themselves in front of the FL variable. I paid £400 for my Diavari C in 1993 time, hell of a lot at the time but I have never ever regretted it. My daughter wants a go at short range Bench rest so I will take the 20BR with the NSX on it for her, she likes to wind up the mag as her eyes are not very good.

 

A