A question for Laurie regarding AR 10.

[menial 1]

Hi Laurie, I've always fancied an AR10 in .308 but was put off with the reputed problems with case extraction.

Some honest answers from someone who owns and shoots one would be welcome.

I'm reluctant to spend 2k+ to finish up disappointed and having an expensive rifle collecting dust in the cabinet.

I have one of Bradders rifles in .223 which shoots extremely well but would enjoy being able to stretch out a lot further with a rifle in a similar vein.

Regards Pete.

[baldie]

Just to chip in Pete, before Laurie gets to it. I had primary extraction issues with my grendel. The camming lever from armalon cured it 100%. Dont let hard extraction put you off...its easily cured.

[menial 1]

Just to chip in Pete, before Laurie gets to it. I had primary extraction issues with my grendel. The camming lever from armalon cured it 100%. Dont let hard extraction put you off...its easily cured.

 

Cheers Dave, I've had hard extraction on the .223 in the summer and often wondered about the camming lever and would it enable me to warm my loads up a bit and explore the rifle's potential. I presently run 55gr Blitzkings over 23.5grn of Viht 133 at 3100fps on fox, small deer and vermin to avoid extraction problems in summer temps.

I looked at the Grendel and decided to reject it for just those reasons as I really didn't think it would perform deer legally in a straight pull and wouldn't improve on my 6BR's performance so seemed a pointless excercise.

Still fancy the AR 10 and would go for it if the Easycam could effect a cure.

Do you suffer from any galling on the bolt lugs with the Easycam installed?

Pete.

[bradders]

Extraction's not the only problem, the other one is actually getting hold of one as they're currently unavailable in the UK

[bradders]

Extraction's not the only problem, the other one is actually getting hold of one as they're currently unavailable in the UK

 

ETA: The easycam isn't as doable on an AR10 as you'd need a thick walled receiver.

 

ETA: Pt 2: If you're having extraction issues in hot weather, bin the Lapua brass and get Winchester

[baldie]

Haven,t had any galling problems Pete, and i,m running book max in the Grendel.

 

We have a couple of guys running ar10,s occasionally up at Diggle, but they are indeed a rare beast. If Mark doesn,t know of any, then they must indeed be like hen,s teeth.

I would have a word with him personally, no one has more knowledge on the AR in this country.

[menial 1]

Thanks for the replies men, perhaps I'll have to wait and see if one becomes available in the future.

I suppose with the current restrictions in the USA there's no chance of importing the parts for a build.

Pete.

[Laurie]

Pete,

 

Hi there! It looks like everybody has prtetty well answered you before I noticed your post.

 

I've not used my AR over-much, as I've put a lot more effort into my single-shot .308W Barnard/Eliseo tube-gun for F/TR over the last year and which is paying off in much improved results.

 

What to say about the SSR-10? It's bigger and heavier than the SSR-15 or similar from Bradders. That can be good or bad depending on what you use it for. Definitely on the heavy side for Service Rifle and PR, I'd say, but my example has a non-fluted long barrel, so a 22" or 24" fluted job would lose you a pound or maybe a bit more.

 

The built-in Picatinny flat-top upper rail is parallel to the bore, so there are real scope elevation adjustment issues, limiting the rifle to around 500yd at the moment. I need a canted scope rail that is also extended forward a bit to obtain another inch or two of eye relief. I've seen several suitable rails / mounts in US websites for use on flat-tops, but nobody even bothers replying to emails now from these companies, never mind wanting to take your money, presumably down to State Department regulations / license issues. Any thoughts there Mark?

 

Accuracy-wise, I got a good short-range load pretty quickly using no longer available Lapua 170gn B or D-series FMJBTs. I'm sure it can be made to shoot very well, but takes a bit of development. The vertical stringing tendency that all ARs seem to have unless the load is tuned just right are exaggerrated with the bigger cartridge - 1" high vertical line groups are dead easy to get at 100yd. As a handloading junkie with access to a 100yd benchrest range, this is a nice challenge to me, but others would likely find it a downside.

 

Extraction? 'People' told me I'd never get the bolt open with the .308. It's nothing like as bad as that, but is harder than .223. Providing you keep loads reasonable, there's no problem, but you do need a little harder tug with most loads. It's also a bit brass sensitive, some makes stickier than others. I've hundreds of 1980s Norma match cases that I bought at near scrap prices and intended to use them, but expensive new Lapua extracts more easily, damn it. What I'm doing now is recycling my Lapua brass from the tube-gun when it's had e fair few loadings to the SSR. Bob C has the barrels (it's a Krieger) chambered by one of the AR specialists in the USA before import and it's a good example, probably as tight as you can go in a straight-pull, so easy to full-length resize cases. I'm pretty sure Bob either specifies a very high polish on the chamber or does that himself after receiving the barrel from the USA. It's very good. Bob also says extraction eases with use, a few hundred rounds making a difference. So, I don't see it as an issue, but it may be more for a PR shooter with weak hand stages, or in rapid fire with the chamber and barrel really hot. I don't think you can expect the .223 / 6.8 scenario where the cases almost fall out of the chamber if you get a good performing load that keeps the pressures down just a little.

 

Vince Bottomley is dead keen to have me hand it over for one of his project rifle builds to 6.5X47 Lapua as he has a spare used 6.5 barrel that could be cut down. I suspect 6.5X47L will need the Armalon camming handle as suggested by Dave (Baldie) to get the brass out of the chamber! I might agree to this eventually, but want to work it out as a .308W first, and try it in a few McQueens comps.

 

Overall verdict? The straight-pull concept works better with .223 / 6.8 SPC and the 15 is a better sized / weight rifle for anything other than shooting entirely prone. I like Black Rifles, .308W, and shoot supported prone or off a bench all the time, so it suits me OK. The big downside is the scope mounting issue. I really need to address that before starting up with the rifle again - all suggestions welcome.

 

Laurie

[bradders]

Pete,

 

Hi there! It looks like everybody has prtetty well answered you before I noticed your post.

 

I've not used my AR over-much, as I've put a lot more effort into my single-shot .308W Barnard/Eliseo tube-gun for F/TR over the last year and which is paying off in much improved results.

 

What to say about the SSR-10? It's bigger and heavier than the SSR-15 or similar from Bradders. That can be good or bad depending on what you use it for. Definitely on the heavy side for Service Rifle and PR, I'd say, but my example has a non-fluted long barrel, so a 22" or 24" fluted job would lose you a pound or maybe a bit more.

 

The built-in Picatinny flat-top upper rail is parallel to the bore, so there are real scope elevation adjustment issues, limiting the rifle to around 500yd at the moment. I need a canted scope rail that is also extended forward a bit to obtain another inch or two of eye relief. I've seen several suitable rails / mounts in US websites for use on flat-tops, but nobody even bothers replying to emails now from these companies, never mind wanting to take your money, presumably down to State Department regulations / license issues. Any thoughts there Mark?

 

Accuracy-wise, I got a good short-range load pretty quickly using no longer available Lapua 170gn B or D-series FMJBTs. I'm sure it can be made to shoot very well, but takes a bit of development. The vertical stringing tendency that all ARs seem to have unless the load is tuned just right are exaggerrated with the bigger cartridge - 1" high vertical line groups are dead easy to get at 100yd. As a handloading junkie with access to a 100yd benchrest range, this is a nice challenge to me, but others would likely find it a downside.

 

Extraction? 'People' told me I'd never get the bolt open with the .308. It's nothing like as bad as that, but is harder than .223. Providing you keep loads reasonable, there's no problem, but you do need a little harder tug with most loads. It's also a bit brass sensitive, some makes stickier than others. I've hundreds of 1980s Norma match cases that I bought at near scrap prices and intended to use them, but expensive new Lapua extracts more easily, damn it. What I'm doing now is recycling my Lapua brass from the tube-gun when it's had e fair few loadings to the SSR. Bob C has the barrels (it's a Krieger) chambered by one of the AR specialists in the USA before import and it's a good example, probably as tight as you can go in a straight-pull, so easy to full-length resize cases. I'm pretty sure Bob either specifies a very high polish on the chamber or does that himself after receiving the barrel from the USA. It's very good. Bob also says extraction eases with use, a few hundred rounds making a difference. So, I don't see it as an issue, but it may be more for a PR shooter with weak hand stages, or in rapid fire with the chamber and barrel really hot. I don't think you can expect the .223 / 6.8 scenario where the cases almost fall out of the chamber if you get a good performing load that keeps the pressures down just a little.

 

Vince Bottomley is dead keen to have me hand it over for one of his project rifle builds to 6.5X47 Lapua as he has a spare used 6.5 barrel that could be cut down. I suspect 6.5X47L will need the Armalon camming handle as suggested by Dave (Baldie) to get the brass out of the chamber! I might agree to this eventually, but want to work it out as a .308W first, and try it in a few McQueens comps.

 

Overall verdict? The straight-pull concept works better with .223 / 6.8 SPC and the 15 is a better sized / weight rifle for anything other than shooting entirely prone. I like Black Rifles, .308W, and shoot supported prone or off a bench all the time, so it suits me OK. The big downside is the scope mounting issue. I really need to address that before starting up with the rifle again - all suggestions welcome.

 

Laurie

 

 

Laurie,

I can supply you with a 15 MOA extended Long Range rail that will slip over the picatinny rail on the receiver and clamp on.

 

I am actually supposed to be in Arizona this very day, but the Icelanders have scuppered that idea

Anyhow, our flight is re-scheduled for Tuesday (although that is somewhat hopeful at the mo), but if we do go I can fetch one back for you

 

Mark

[Laurie]

Laurie,

I can supply you with a 15 MOA extended Long Range rail that will slip over the picatinny rail on the receiver and clamp on.

 

I am actually supposed to be in Arizona this very day, but the Icelanders have scuppered that idea

Anyhow, our flight is re-scheduled for Tuesday (although that is somewhat hopeful at the mo), but if we do go I can fetch one back for you

 

Mark

 

 

 

YES PLEASE, MARK!

 

Many thanks for the help. I hope you get there soon. My daughter is flying to New York at the end of the week too - hopefully! That'll teach us to have Brown use anti-terror laws to screw money out of Iceland!

 

Laurie

[menial 1]

Laurie, thanks for the the encouraging reply.

Mark, start sourcing the bits and let's get one done.

Pete.

[bradders]

Laurie, thanks for the the encouraging reply.

Mark, start sourcing the bits and let's get one done.

Pete.

 

 

I am working on it but at this time price might be the prohibiting factor

[menial 1]

I am working on it but at this time price might be the prohibiting factor

 

I'll give you a call and we can discuss just how prohibiting the price may be.

Pete.

[DMCI]

I have the carbine flattop AR-10 as shown below and the thing is brilliant in my view.

 

Remarkably accurate and loves Federal Gold Match and M118LR. Put a little 1.8-10x39 Compact SN-3 on it and it is my long range plinker. Had it out on the 700 yard range recently as shown in the picture below.

 

Highly recommended. Oh, and like all gas operated guns you need to clean it occasionally. (Like after every outing.)

 

 

Of course, I can't leave anything alone. You can see the aftermarket stock I fitted thereto.

[ds1]

DMCI, do you have any opinion on RND rifles - I'm thinking about buying a RND Edge 800 (AR10) in 308win.

 

Thanks, David.

[Chris-NZ]

Was surprised how well those ARs can shoot- here's a group from my mate in Oklahoma.

 

 

Obviously those Rock Rivers are a good brand. He also has the .223 brother which is just as good and proved deadly on prairie dogs when I was last over there

 

Chris-NZ

[DMCI]

DMCI, do you have any opinion on RND rifles - I'm thinking about buying a RND Edge 800 (AR10) in 308win.

 

Thanks, David.

 

I have no personal experience with that weapon. Looks like it has possibilities.

 

However, because of possible reverse engineering issues (and it seems everyone is building AR or Colt Clones these days) I tend as a matter of policy to buy from OEMs.

 

DMCI