New addition Blaser TAC 2

[brown dog]

Just re-reading this this morning.

Actually, it's that last photo I find most frightening. The first two are pilot error.

 

The last one is a metallurgical fault in the bolt metal (much like the sounds of the Montana failure at Bisley linked earlier) and the same sort of fault that caused the early L96 failures.

 

I wonder how many of the custom actions have sufficient volume behind them to have exposed such issues? I think I'd be steering away from anything machined from an investment casting rather than quality solid billet.

 

Anyone who knows more about metals want to give a view?

[varmartin]

What was the circumstances of the failer in the last image ?

 

No other damage is apparent on the bolt ..indicating it did not blow up..just fell to bits on removal maybe ..?

[brown dog]

What was the circumstances of the failer in the last image ?

 

No other damage is apparent on the bolt ..indicating it did not blow up..just fell to bits on removal maybe ..?

 

No idea, just google image searched to make my worthless point, it was on sniper's hide -the fellow described what you've deduced in your second sentence - couldn't find it again just now to link!

[Ratwhiskers]

l'm nearly sure it was an FN SPR blot lug that failed, l did a quick search but it didn't throw anything up....

[ChrisF]

I actually , did ALSO say that AI & Sako have had blowups as well , but the AW50 & the TRG-42 ( I am aware of ), the result was not a flawed design as in the case of the 3 Blaser blowups .

 

I have also heard of a AI having trouble , Opps someone forgot to put the locking ring into the action , Opps ( I donot think that , that was the rifles fault , more likely the person , mucking about with it ) .

 

And while S%^T does happen , I feel much better with a Sako or AW , than a Blaser , Opps ,

 

And thats my decision , I also like the features , and the magazines 10rd for 308 &300 , & 5rds for 338LM on the AW series .

 

In my opinion , if you are after a rugged rifle , then , its AI , then Sako , almost anything else , then Blaser , Opps ,

 

 

Later Chris

[brown dog]

I have also heard of a AI having trouble , Opps someone forgot to put the locking ring into the action , Opps ( I donot think that , that was the rifles fault , more likely the person , mucking about with it ) .

 

Chris, I don't disagree, the Blaser is firmly a range rifle; it is definitely not a rugged rifle -and marketing it as a tactical rifle is laughable. Particular given the design's propensity to misfire due to light strikes; a life or death no-no.

Regardless of that serious issue, you just have to open the bolt; look at the collet and think "SAND" to understand why it could never be suitable for military use.

But, as a range rifle, it's all it needs to be and has some very nice features.

 

AWs: Locking rings; yes. That's an armourer failing. That's happened; but it'd be some pretty serious mucking about for a user to get to it! The early L96 failures were due to sheared lugs caused by inadequate hardening. I believe at that time AI were contracting out some production -in this case the bolts- and they weren't hardened to spec. Look how small the lugs are; the hardening is a critical part of the design. That's why they now make everything in-house; and why you'll see a little hardness strike mark on the face of your AW's bolt ring.

 

The L96 was also designed such that you could reassemble the bolt incorrectly after stripping in such a way that it fired on closing. Corrected on the AW.

 

My only point was; that you (and many others) focus on 3 examples you believe you know of of Blaser failures -cherry picking them out- and ignore that other rifles fail too. Sh't happens. I'm also still amused to hear the internet AW50 blow-up theory; when I've actually handled that blown-up rifle and spoken to the boffins who assessed it, at the establishment where it was assessed.

 

Pour memoire; I shoot an AW.

 

[Ronin]

The thread was started with a degree of trepidation

 

It seems my fears were true and not percieved (perhaps I should start fortune telling)

 

 

I hear the issues re "poor" design and some failures of rifles - cannot say why they failed - perhaps the washer disintigrating? I don't know, I have had my bolt apart (stripped as far as factory recomends) and see no "washer"

 

Incidentally, it appears that the TAC 2 bolt is not interchangable with R93 / LRS2 - maybe the design has been improved?

 

If the can mech fails, I can see how the collets will not hold, but the cam looks pretty well designed to me (by my untrained eye)

 

 

My own version has the entire case head held in a "ring of steel" and a gas vent on the LHS of the bolt head in the event of case / primer rupture.

 

Both sides of the barrel have gas vents too.

 

 

The collet design is not new, it's been used in the manufacturing industry since the industrial revoltion, its simple, strong and works.

 

 

 

Ok in the event of a lug failure I havent one back up lug (in the case of a two lug bolt head) - I have nine (providing the thrust mechanism doent fail)

 

 

 

I thought there would be mixed views on the rifle when I got it and considered keeping shtum..

 

 

 

I could have easily built myself a "tac" rifle on a Surgeon again - but I wanted a factory (standard) gun.

 

 

I dont like the design and feel of the TRG22's and ive "been there, done that" with the AW, dind't want an AE and although the Sig Phantom appeals, its price tag doesn't.

 

 

Rightly pointed out, the Blaser is just a range gun it isn't my intention to take the thing into battle or drag it through a sand pit

 

Several are in use in former eastern bloc countries (although in urban units), I recall a comp I attended in 2008 was won by a team using this rifle.

 

I wanted something that fits me and will enable me to shoot from any position, the T2 fits that bill.

 

 

A friend of mine who is the agent at an estate in Yorkshire uses an R93 for everything from foxes through to bear and has travelled the world with the rifle and change barrels. The rifle has performed in +30 degees down to - 40 faultlessly.

 

The only problem being a saddle mount arm broke in the extreme cold.

 

Fortunately my rifle has a picatinny rail.

 

 

If the rifle fails - then the detractors can say "I told you so" maybe if I survive BD will feel jealous over my new found good looks

 

 

I don't intend to use anything other than "normal" loads, thick cup primers and full length sized cases in this baby.

 

 

 

 

Tactical - no,

 

Range queen - maybe.

 

Safe queen not likely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Baldie - it wont ever be pink, although I may wear a pink carnation in my smoking jacket the next time I use it at Diggle or Warcop for't "lads"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh No, "multicoatman" is here now

[ds1]

Hi Andy,

 

my 2p.........some years ago I talked with a bloke from the indipendent authority doing the test on one of the failed rifles - I talked with him at IWA and also the Blaser company, at the time it was a new incident. Anyway the blokes advise was he would happily still use one- the problem being the case rupture happened as a result of VERY excessive pressure, at the time it was thought (not proven) that gasses escaped around / through the collets - in effect gasses pushing against the collet fingers(closing them) - whilst the rear of the case was pushing against the bolt head (opening them) - causing the collet fingers to fracture and break. To restate this was an early impession and I never followed the outcome up.

 

You can argue the toss if a rear lug (traditional bolt handle in a receiver notch) is a fail safe - the bloke from AI who lost his thumb when the bolt came back without the barrel collet in place indicates it is not sufficent by itself.

 

The Blaser collet "teeth" on my Blaser soon showed signs of wear - not totally even, if you use the same collet for several barrel combinations I am not sure if this would get worse or change anything in accuracy. Anyway in terms of saftey Blaser have apparently tested to many thousands of rounds without issue.

 

The original cantilever mount sucked both in design and cost.

 

Like Chris says you are paying for the marketing and design - doing away with the receiver should lower cost (Blaser charge more for that "feature" say over a TRG).

 

Anyway Andy enjoy it, if you fancy getting the best from it have a look at a 6mmbr tube and 6.5x55 tube - I got Blaser to supply me with 300 Win Mag mags for the 6.5x55, otherwise they supply 308 mags that have a COAL that is too short. Guess that is the beauty of the system a 300m BR gun or in 6.5x55 it is good enough to wipe the floor at 1km against 338 Lapua - in one chassis.

 

David.

[brown dog]

Random thought:

The TAC2 is sooo comfortable to hold. If you could put an AW action into a TAC2 stock (and retain the TAC2 trigger pull) you'd have the ultimate rifle.

[Ratwhiskers]

Hey Andy.

 

Just messin' with your head

 

Till it's the bolt's turn to do so

 

D.

....

[ds1]

BD, I`m having thoughts about getting a Tubb Spectaclr. The idea over the AW being ergonomics, weight and a faster bolt.....plus it uses an Annie trigger.

 

David.

[brown dog]

BD, I`m having thoughts about getting a Tubb Spectaclr. The idea over the AW being ergonomics, weight and a faster bolt.....plus it uses an Annie trigger.

 

David.

 

Ha I thought 'spectaclr' was ds1 code for crazy complicated 2000 until I googled it and found out it that it really is a rifle!

 

Where would you get it? [Got a feeling they'll be spectaclr-ly expensive too](by PM if you'd prefer!)

[alled12]

DS1 is right on this having owned a blaser LRS, the specticle of blowing up in my face bothered me slightly. Having examined the evidence and the testing done after the incidents it proved to be the shooters who were at fault and not the design. The German HSE equivalent put these rifle through there paces and found they exceeded the required pressure limits and then some. Ronin enjoy that rifle it will shoot, they just do and dont worry about the crap that flies around the web. Because it is just that crap.

[Ronin]

Update on the Blaser

 

 

Went out today for an hour or twos load development.....

 

 

Seated at 2.183" (.010" off lands) the 155g Scenars were printing .4" groups regularly at 100 mtrs. (44g of Vit 140, CCI BR primer)

 

Went in .3 g increments up to just over 46g Vit 140, no pressure signs at all, no sticky bolt etc at this charge weight, easy opening and extraction.

 

 

Would like to better this if possible, I have Vit 540, Varget (well most powders actually), anyone have suggestions on loads using 540 or Varget....or H4895???

 

 

Didnt have chronograph with me today, not enough time.

 

 

Trigger; very sweet release, no copper in barrel (at all) after 30 + rounds.

 

 

Suggestions welcome for other powders or will play a little with seat depth and .2 increments either side of 44g Vit 140.

 

 

Hopefully will be circa 2850 +,,,,,hopefully.

 

 

This is a typical 3 shot group using 44g Vit 140

 

[Ronin]

Anyone tried H4895 with the 308 Win??

 

Some very good results posted on 6mmBR..

[brown dog]

I'm a luddite when it comes to all this load tweaking in 308; it's a mind game. Just copy the OAL of lapua factory match, use N140 and it will shoot - the magic number is 56.7mm to stoney point measured ogive. I'll buy you a beer if I'm wrong

[varmartin]

Will that be a pint or 0.568 litres ?

[varmartin]

edit...

 

"quote"...

Suggestions welcome for other powders or will play a little with seat depth and .2 increments either side of 44g Vit 140.

 

 

Hopefully will be circa 2850 +,,,,,hopefully.

.......

 

Andy...

 

I had to step up to 46g of Varget to get 2850fps...not loaded it but understand 46g of N140 is the same... ( with 26" tube )

[Ronin]

BD

 

at my current seating depth (.010" off lands) your OAL to ogive would place me .038" INTO lands.

 

 

Pretty certain the Tac 2 is shorter throated than the AW.

 

But not by much, however enough to make excess pressure if I tried it...

 

 

 

 

Martin

 

 

Varget is next "try"

 

 

Would be nice to see 2900+ if possible for 1k

 

 

Maybe also try 175SMK's as I have a few of these,,,,

 

 

I think circa .5 MOA is acceptible for factory rifle, but personaly, I would like to sqeeze as smaller group as possible out of it.

 

 

Dont forget (or I am forgetting) I am not used to shooting it - as opposed to me other rifles, so it may be in part me...

[Streeker59]

Such a shame you can't make the UKV shoot. We would all have loved to see her in action....

[Ronin]

Such a shame you can't make the UKV shoot. We would all have loved to see her in action....

 

 

I would loved to have gotten down, but am on nights over the entire weekend, no way (unless I had a driver) would I make it each way and shoot without falling asleep.

 

Getting time off is arkward at the moment, having to reduce the number of F Class comps this year and missed a day at Warcop today because of it too.

 

No rest and all that

[brown dog]

at my current seating depth (.010" off lands) your OAL to ogive would place me .038" INTO lands.

 

Wow, are you sure? That means Lapua factory ammo would be into the lands on the Blaser; 56.7mm is the Lapua factory length to ogive.

[Ronin]

Possible explanation

 

 

I use Sinclair Comparator, you are using Stoney Point - potentially there is a difference in the hole diameter?

 

Anyway, 56.7mm - 2.232"

 

 

My (Tac 2 ) OAL to lands is 2.193"

 

 

My comparator is .301" diameter, any varience in diameters bettween the SP and Sinc will show up in OAL to Ogive.

 

 

 

Out of interest the OAL (Tip of scenar to base of case) is 2.859" seated at .010" off lands (2.183")

 

I think SAAMI is 2.850" ??

[brown dog]

Yup, different ogive tools will be the explanation (which is why I always mention the make when giving length to ogive ) the OAL for the round is 72.9mm or 2.87"; that's just a straight result of a lengthto ogive copy of lapua factory -worked first time without any tweaking.

I now use that (but measured to ogive) for any 308 bullet (which sounds great, but actually just means 155 scenar and 165 NBT ). Although I suppose I should note that it didn't work for amax -don't know what would; I gave up on them -the amax ogive shape is just too ugly for my rifle )

[Ronin]

Having found a spare hour or two to confirm load data for my F Class rifle, I also took along the Blaser with some prepped loads using Varget instead of Vit 140.

 

 

I think, I struck gold.

 

 

Same seat depth, CCI BR primer and 155 Scenar.

 

44.5g Varget - 1st accuracy node - 2806 fps with ES of 16

 

 

2nd accuracy node, 46.5g Varget - 2914 fps and ES of 26

 

Sorry pic upside down..

 

 

Overcast day, temp 10.2 degreesC, 855 ft altitude, targets at 119 mtrs, wind was constant (ish) 10mph from 8 oclock.

 

 

 

 

Pleased I appear to have beaten "Z" Germans