S&B 4–16 x 50 PM II

[n8ess]

Can you specify 2nd focal plane P4 fine in a S&B 4–16 x 50 PM II?

 

Cheers

 

Neil

[brown dog]

Can you specify 2nd focal plane P4 fine in a S&B 4–16 x 50 PM II?

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

Don't!!

 

Get it in FFP

[Ronin]

You can,,,,,

 

 

but why???

 

P4 Fine is fine enough even at full mag on clays at 1000 yds to distinguish them easily.

 

Even with the 25power PM11 you can do this with the P4 fine ret.

 

 

 

You will spoil a decent scope if you spec 2nd FP.

[n8ess]

I have a S&B 3-12x42 which I cannot fault on glass quality, much better than IMO than my swarovski 6-24x50 in poor light, but when wound up to 12 mag it does bloc out the target. The swarovski however is excellent for long range shots and being 2nd focal I find more precise as it does not obscure the target.

 

Neil

[Ronin]

The FFP reticle remains the same size - the image gets larger in relation to magnification.

 

 

Snd FP the image is magnified the ret remains the same size.

 

 

 

 

 

FFP is far more precise and reliable for zoom scopes, better for ranging with at any mag rather than the "fixed" mag of 2nd FP.

 

etc etc

 

 

 

Lots of discussion on the web re this one and some decent comparison pics on the Hide regarding FFP and 2nd FP scopes side by side - in particular with P4 fine rets.

 

 

See here for a decent site with side by side shots

 

http://www.finnaccuracy.com/sb_pm2_52556.html

 

I have FFP PM11's in 10x42, 4-16 and have just sold a FFP 5-25 PM11, to replace it with another FFP 4-16 PM11 (which I think is a better all round scope)

 

 

 

FFP is just as good (if not better) than 2nd, IMHO anyway.

 

 

 

Personal choice anyway, but I see more benefits for FFP than for 2nd personaly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This, by the way is one of those "marmite" debates

[n8ess]

Ronin,

 

Which reticle did you go for? do you have a P4 fine or the P4? I'm trying to find that perfect balance between a good foxing scope and something for longer range to go on my 6BR.

 

Like I said the Swaro is excellent for long range in good light but I find a little fussy at night.

 

Does anyone have a 4-16 PM11 for me to look through? I live Kent but I will also be in Derby next weekend, I don't mind traveling a bit either.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

[ChrisF]

Ronin ,

 

Can you expand on why you donot like the 5-25x version , I have heard from some thats its not that good at the top end 25x .

 

I have just brought a S&B PMII 4-16x50 , mil/mil , with P4F reticle .

 

For most jobs I feel its more needed , But for some of the real long range cals/rifles , its just a shame they cannot mkae a DT mil knob version in the 4-16x50 , as I understand it , the design of the 4-16x50 does not have the room inside to enable having a Double Turn Mil knob .

 

Later CHris

[22/250 foxer]

Ronin,

 

Which reticle did you go for? do you have a P4 fine or the P4? I'm trying to find that perfect balance between a good foxing scope and something for longer range to go on my 6BR.

 

Like I said the Swaro is excellent for long range in good light but I find a little fussy at night.

 

Does anyone have a 4-16 PM11 for me to look through? I live Kent but I will also be in Derby next weekend, I don't mind traveling a bit either.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

no where one is for sale. 34mm tube body 4x16x50 mag. ffp recticial bryant or p1 i think its called

[n8ess]

no where one is for sale. 34mm tube body 4x16x50 mag. ffp recticial bryant or p1 i think its called

 

I am after the P4 or P4 fine, illuminated reticle but thanks anyway.

 

Neil

[Alycidon]

Owning a similar Swaro would agree with the low light comments. I may well change to for a PM2 or Ziess next year. I also think that 50mm is more than enough lens diameter.

 

If you are intending to use the ladder ret on the P4 as opposed to range and dial you will need it in FFP, in 2nd FP the distances between the hashes change depending on the mag setting.

 

Nice link to that Finnish site Andy, thanks.

 

A

[Ronin]

Ronin ,

 

Can you expand on why you donot like the 5-25x version , I have heard from some thats its not that good at the top end 25x .

 

I have just brought a S&B PMII 4-16x50 , mil/mil , with P4F reticle .

 

For most jobs I feel its more needed , But for some of the real long range cals/rifles , its just a shame they cannot mkae a DT mil knob version in the 4-16x50 , as I understand it , the design of the 4-16x50 does not have the room inside to enable having a Double Turn Mil knob .

 

Later CHris

 

 

Chris

 

 

I like the 5-25 no doubt about it.

 

 

However, its heavy and to be honest I found that I don't need that much power for most applications.

 

Ok I use a NF 32 x for F Class.

 

 

But in normal, practical use, I dont really need more than 16 at most.

 

 

For example a few weeks ago we were shooting clays (fluroecent ones) at 1000yd at a range - I found that with the 338 (and 4-16 PM11) I could easily pick out the clays and align the cross hairs without obscuring them - and hit them.

 

 

So the 4-16 is now my preferred choice over the 5-25.

 

 

It does everythng the 25 does in a smaller package, yep aggreed theres no DT with MIL turrets, but I can live with that.

 

Optics are as good, tube is 34mm, just slightly smaller package.

[brown dog]

I agree with Ronin; the 4-16 is far more pleasingly ergonomic; I muddle along with mine even with a standard mil dot; with the p4 fine it's the ultimate scope [well, , if they did a 6-24x50 in the same body as the 4-16, that'd trump it] so.... any seasoned 4-16 user getting a 5-25 would have to be an utter fool.

 

 

(Is the double turn definitely not available on the metric 4-16 even if special ordered? Telephone call to factory required I'd say)