Regs' licences, paperwork etc re Explosives

[325WSM]

I have been discussing licences etc and other paperwork regarding Explosives / Reloading Powder and find no one else has registered and few folk know of the documents discussed let alone have copies.

 

I find 5kg of powder per house totally inadequate so have always had a licence to hold larger quantities but I also have a Fit Persons Certificate and and RCA doc as well as registering my premises as an Explosives Store.

 

How do all you others cope with the limits set within the law of 10lbs or 5kg of explosives per house including all that explosives incorporated in ammo and primers etc and have you bothered to Register your premises?

[Vermincinerator]

WSM,

I presume you are talking about black-powder, as far as i know modern smokeless powders do not come under the explosives act as they are classed as propellents not explosives.

The reason for this is in the burn characteristics.

An explosive has the same burning cahracteristics whether burnt enclosed or in the open, where as a propellent will burn in a millisecond when enclosed but in the open it will fiz, spit and burn much more slowly.

 

Ian.

[325WSM]

No Ian Smokeless Powder.

It is all encompassed in the Explosives Acts and actually always has been.

[Ronin]

Well er no, I had'nt actually considered it.

 

 

Although I haven't exceeded my allowance by all acounts

[baldie]

There are also new rules for shops buddy, i cant remember exactly the ins and outs, but unless the premises has a powder magazine, and conforms to distances from dwellings etc, the limit is now 30 kilos, which is an absolute joke for a retailer. So next time your dealer doesn,t have the oddball powders fella,s please remember, he isnt going to fill his shelves with slow sellers, when he can only hold 30 kilo,s. This includes black powder, which we have just dropped.

No one is going to admit it, but i would say most handloaders have already exceeded the limit. I,ve got two of my guns on varget, hopefully a third with the new .308, and the only other one i use now is h4895 for the .204.I,ve given powders away recently, which were almost full, and were found lacking for certain loads etc, just to stay legal, which is a bit of a bugger, as we all like to try 3 or 4 different ones in a new gun dont we? The new 1lb vhit,s are a step in the right direction, what i would like to see is people like hodgdons etc, maybe doing 4, 1/4lb, pots, of similar powders, available as a sample type pack, for homeloaders....but that doesn,t make economic sence really, does it.

[325WSM]

Baldie.

You just cant afford to keep powder in 1 lb lots because as soon as you want some more there isn't any.

Besides it is never the same batch to batch - R12 was often very different so I always bought in lots of 5 tubs. Do that for 4 or 5 powders and you have to have a licence (ie Register Premises)

[Ratwhiskers]

What gets me is that there were some changes recently regarding the storage of powders in general, ie' had to be kept in a wooden "fire resistant box of a given volume". But Plod never let anyone know with a timely reminder to everyone with a section 1 ticket. l'll try and dig it out and post what i find.

 

Regards.

 

Ratwhiskers.

....

[325WSM]

Re the box - it was only a REQUIREMENT for Blackpowder it was a simply a RECOMENDATION for Smokeless Powder

[stag1933]

The law seems to be an ass as usual, as 5 Kilo. is about 11 Pounds and not 10. [11.0231 to be precise.]

11 pounds at 7000 grains to the pound would give about 1540 bullets each charged with 50 grains of powder.

By anyones standards that is a LOT of ammo,

I never have large numbers loaded up but do small batches as required.

 

5 Kilo. of powder is more than most people will ever need.

[325WSM]

It used to be 10lbs now it is 5kg

I think it changed both because of metrification and the fact that more powder is coming in metric weights than it used to.

 

I am afraid I dont class 1500 rounds as anything other than a 'token' figure. For one cal yes that would be fine but if you are loading and carrying ammo for 10-12 rifles or perhaps more then 5 kg would not even allow a kg of each of the required VV powders to cover your different requirements.

 

Until recently the cost for an Explosives licence was only a few quid but now it is £120 for 3 years so it adds additional costs to already expensive reloading.

[Ratwhiskers]

Stag.

 

To quote Kipling... One can never have to much Red Wine too many Books or too much Ammunition .

 

Regards.

 

Ratwhiskers.

....

[baldie]

Baldie.

You just cant afford to keep powder in 1 lb lots because as soon as you want some more there isn't any.

Besides it is never the same batch to batch - R12 was often very different so I always bought in lots of 5 tubs. Do that for 4 or 5 powders and you have to have a licence (ie Register Premises)

 

Agree entirely buddy, and they are all as bad for batch difference, i meant the little 1 lb, kegs of vhit were "better" than the kilo,s if you you wanted to just try a powder.

Its a poor do, and to be honest, the HSE are becoming a right pain in the arse for shooting in general. Its them that will curtail our exploits, not the government, they have been causing havoc with range certification over the last two years.

[col48]

Agree entirely buddy, and they are all as bad for batch difference, i meant the little 1 lb, kegs of vhit were "better" than the kilo,s if you you wanted to just try a powder.

Its a poor do, and to be honest, the HSE are becoming a right pain in the arse for shooting in general. Its them that will curtail our exploits, not the government, they have been causing havoc with range certification over the last two years.

 

 

you are not wrong there chap

 

they will end up stopping shooting by red tape

stopping the transport of stuff,and so on

 

ATB

Colin

[Vermincinerator]

WSM,

I stand corrected my friend, i was unaware of any legislation regarding smokeless powders and in the 20 odd years that i have been handloading i have never been told by my FLC that there is a limit on the amount of powder i can hold.

My previous BP licence also did not have a limit on it.

 

Ian.

[Vermincinerator]

Baldie,

Hodgdon introduced the 4 x 1/4lb sampler packs a few years ago but as far as i know they never made it here to the UK.

As these sampler packs do not appear on the Hodgdon site i can only assume that they have dropped the line.

 

Ian.

[Guest A-max]

I am afraid I dont class 1500 rounds as anything other than a 'token' figure. For one cal yes that would be fine but if you are loading and carrying ammo for 10-12 rifles or perhaps more then 5 kg would not even allow a kg of each of the required VV powders to cover your different requirements.

 

Until recently the cost for an Explosives licence was only a few quid but now it is £120 for 3 years so it adds additional costs to already expensive reloading.

 

325 WSM,

 

If someone has the money to be running/loading/carrying ammo for 10-12 rifles and dosent "....class 1500 rounds as anything other than a 'token' figure" then surely £40 per year is a token fee for an explosives licence??? I mean £40 per year is a fraction of the cost of 10-12 rifles+brass+powder+primers+all the other little things like dies. I struggle to see a "need" for 10-12 rifles in anyone's armory, and the only reason I see for needing so much powder is if you are loading comercialy, if so then you need to price it in acordingly

[John MH]

I struggle to see a "need" for 10-12 rifles in anyone's armory

 

A-max

 

If your FAC is held purely for vermin control and game shooting then maybe so, but there are many shooters who hold possess more than 10-12 rifles and are able to show good reason for them. We all need to stick together so comments like the one above don't help anyones cause. United we win, divided we fall.

 

I reload for 8 different calibres and get through approximantely 5000 round per year, so there is a need there.

 

JMH

[Guest A-max]

John,

 

They may be able to show "good reason" for them, but I'll stick by what I said. "..need for 10-12 rifles..."

 

For no other reason than just out of interest, what 8 calibers do you load for John?

[325WSM]

Amax,

I may have 5 cars, 2 motorcycles and a push bike but I only need one at any one time - but desire is as much a good reason in my book as any other.

 

Re powder

I load different cals. from the 204 through to the 325WSM but they don't all use the same powder and since as stated I buy sufficient for my needs for months ahead due to poor supplies generally I can easily reach the 30kg limit allowed by my Registration. Re ammo:- I have a larger ammo allocation on some cals than that you are suggesting for all the rifles one may possess but remember that the allocation includes bullets.

 

The point re the £120 is not the cost per se but the fact that our hobby needs to be both so closely regulated and that we are charged for that regulation. Every year there are new restrictions, more paperwork and additional financial burdens placed on the shooting community.

 

How about a 50p charge everytime the kid next door plays football?

[Alycidon]

I recently discussed this very point with my FEO, he advised keeping powders in the prescribed powder box, made of timber with dividers etc that was going to be a legal requirement but advised that the law had in fact not changed. He had a glance at the box and the fact that I had secured it in the prescribed manner but he did not check what I had in stock, having had a look today I was pretty close to 5kg and possably even over if you also add loaded shotgun ammo into the equasion.

 

A

[John MH]

John,

 

They may be able to show "good reason" for them, but I'll stick by what I said. "..need for 10-12 rifles..."

 

For no other reason than just out of interest, what 8 calibers do you load for John?

 

A-Max

 

I'm a competitive shooter not a varmint shooter but like all on this forum I am always looking for the best accuracy I can get from my equipment. The accuracy I'm after is not always Benchrest standard as the rifle system has to be practical as well. I probably don't need all the rifles I've got but if I had the physical space I would probably have more than I currently do. I load .223 Rem, .303, .308, .260 Rem, 6XC, 6mmAR, 6mmBR, 6.5x55, .45ACP and 300 Whisper, so that’s actually 10 calibers and I have dies for several more. What I can say is that all the rifles I have do get used, some more than others.

 

We do have to be careful of extant and up and coming HSE Legislation, this is a way that the government and police can put the squeeze on and destroy our sport in all it's various forms. I don't think they have any idea of the breadth and variety of handloading that takes place in the UK if they did I'm sure that they would do all in there power to stop this practice. Lets hope not.

 

 

John MH

[John MH]

I recently discussed this very point with my FEO, he advised keeping powders in the prescribed powder box, made of timber with dividers etc that was going to be a legal requirement but advised that the law had in fact not changed. He had a glance at the box and the fact that I had secured it in the prescribed manner but he did not check what I had in stock, having had a look today I was pretty close to 5kg and possably even over if you also add loaded shotgun ammo into the equasion.

 

A

 

Loaded ammunition does not fall into the equasion, it is entirely separate and does not count towards the 5kg.

[dogfox]

Why should you pay out any more money for your sport than you have to.It is just a back door way to make the sport of shooting more and more expensive.Which does not encourage people to come into the sport.

 

You need to encourage people into shooting to make the sport stronger.

[craigyboy]

over here I have to apply for a permit to hold explosives, each permit allows me to purchase 1000 primers and 2 kg's of powder, when I have used it all up I have to re apply.

[325WSM]

Loaded ammunition does not fall into the equasion, it is entirely separate and does not count towards the 5kg.

 

Of that I am unsure. The law wording is difficult (for me ) to understand - see below;

but I believe it is one or the other or 5 kg of both. That is certainly the case with a certificate of Registration as the wording is far more explicit.

 

 

Explosives not to be stored without a licence

 

10. – (1) Subject to paragraph (2). No person shall store explosives unless he holds a licence for their

 

storage and complies with the conditions of that licence.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to –

 

 

(a) the storage of explosives by a person registered in accordance with regulation 1.1

 

 

(

the storage of any one or more of the following –

 

 

(i) no more than 10kilograms opf black powder

 

 

(ii) no more than 5 kilograms of –

 

 

(aa) shooters powder

 

 

(bb) any explosive or combination of explosives listed in Schedule 1 to the Control of Explosives Regulations 1991: or

 

 

(cc) a combination of shooters powder and any one or more of the explosives listed in Schedule 1 of those Regulations

 

 

(iii) no more than 15 kilograms of percussion caps or small arms ammunition or a mixture of them.