The Whole Shooting Match Mods

[Guest Hoot]

Does anyone have any info on the A7 and A10 mods marketed by our site sponsor The Whole Shooting Match?

 

Price, ease of cleaning, whether the hardened baffles are necessary, performance etc etc.

[6ppc]

Hoot,i will get stuart to put some info on the site,he was going to do it last week but i guess he has been busy.

I can tell you though that they have been totally redesigned as Stuart was not happy with the A10 and A7,they are now lighter,much stronger and quieter and are now calle 'stealth'.

[col48]

Hoot,i will get stuart to put some info on the site,he was going to do it last week but i guess he has been busy.

I can tell you though that they have been totally redesigned as Stuart was not happy with the A10 and A7,they are now lighter,much stronger and quieter and are now calle 'stealth'.

 

hi hoot/Martyn

 

Stuart has asked me to do a review/test of the new mods,

he says they are quieter than the A-TEC and lighter, i think they will have to go some to beat the A-TEC

but i have still got some left to try them against, so i will be doing a fair review of them,

if they come up to scratch i will be offering them for sale as well.

Stuart is continual developing the mods,and he seems to now his product,

i can not wait to get my hands on it now, and give it the once over,

 

ATB

Colin

[Guest Hoot]

Martyn

 

Thank you for the update. Are they now different from the ones reviewed in Gunmart earlier this year?

 

Colin

 

No disrespect but I was hoping that one of the guys from the trade might have had some experience of them. such as Baldie, WSM or 325wsm. I know you've had some small involvement with Atec in past but there is nothing like experience. I will however still look forward to reading your review when its posted.

[Guest Hoot]

Hello Pete

 

I suppose its a bit like asking an sparky to do a review on antiques. Whilst your sparky might be able to say that a certain Regency table had 4 leg and was of a certain size and shape, an antique dealer of the calibre of Eric Knowles would be able to tell you who made it, when, and what from, and give you a very good idea of what its worth in auction and for insurance purposes.

 

I know Baldie was involved in the Atec write up, 325wsm whilst not a user of mods certainly has a wealth of knowledge and experience in relation to rifles and their use, WSM is part of one of the largest gun retailers in the UK. Do you see where I'm coming from on this?

 

You may well have "owned just about every moderator made" but are you a qualified gunsmith or an experienced test engineer? No disrespect but you are just an amateur with a background in the motor trade with more disposable income than some others.

 

Have you owned and used the Stealth mods in question? If you have what were your impressions?

[col48]

Hello Pete

 

I suppose its a bit like asking an sparky to do a review on antiques. Whilst your sparky might be able to say that a certain Regency table had 4 leg and was of a certain size and shape, an antique dealer of the calibre of Eric Knowles would be able to tell you who made it, when, and what from, and give you a very good idea of what its worth in auction and for insurance purposes.

 

I know Baldie was involved in the Atec write up, 325wsm whilst not a user of mods certainly has a wealth of knowledge and experience in relation to rifles and their use, WSM is part of one of the largest gun retailers in the UK. Do you see where I'm coming from on this?

 

You may well have "owned just about every moderator made" but are you a qualified gunsmith or an experienced test engineer? No disrespect but you are just an amateur with a background in the motor trade with more disposable income than some others.

 

Have you owned and used the Stealth mods in question? If you have what were your impressions?

 

 

 

hoot / harry

 

 

then you will not need to read the review, or feel the need to comment on it will you.

 

I'm sure someone with more experience than me will get to do a review in the not to distant future.

 

 

ATB

Colin

[Guest Hoot]

Hi Colin

 

I look forward to reading your review. You can never have to much info on a subject especially when considering spending money on the subject matter. IMHO

 

Would questions be allowed as opposed to comments? Only joking.

 

Do you know when and where this other "more experience" reviewer is likely to publish their review?

[Guest Hoot]

Oh dear it looks as if I have opened a huge can of worms here

 

Pete

 

Whether BAldie is qualified or not he is "hands on" in the trade and has repeatedly demonstrated his impartiality when discussing various products. 325wsm again is first rate IMO and someone's who's opinion I would give serious consideration to irrespectively of what it appertained to. As for WSM you seem to have the low down there rather than I. Perhaps he would care to comment?

 

I do understand the usual principles and process's behind product reviews in the shooting press. That is why I always read such articles with a jaundiced eye. As I do any review from people with whom I have no direct experience of or who have not proven their capabilities. I am sure that Colin will offer up an honest opinion, his "qualified machinest" input will be read with great interest. By me most certainly.

 

I must say that I found your "I wouldnt exaclty say that experience counts for a lot" comment something of a surprise. As well as something I would have to disagree with. But each to his own ah!

 

Not wishing to labour the point but could you answer my closing question?

 

"Have you owned and used the Stealth mods in question? If you have what were your impressions?"

 

Thanks

 

Hoot

[Wsm]

Hoot

 

We`ve seen an A10 in the shop but I`m pretty sure after reading Martyns comments that it was an early model with the stealth being the latest model from TWSM.

Its hard work keeping up at the moment because it seems that theres a new mod coming out every week each one claiming to be better than the rest.

The one thing that I`m sure of even without seeing one first hand yet is that Haggis from West Country Guns has had some input into them so they`ll be up there with the likes of Reflex,Pes & Atec.

Hopefully we`ll have some in the shop shortly but until then I can`t comment any further so lets just wait for Col`s verdict on them eh

 

Funky

 

No offence taken Pete and yes you are correct I am that Hovis delivery boy off the adverts or as Col put it "you and me are in the same job"

 

You are correct about reviews and it is about your own experience.I personally don`t think that theres a lot of suppression difference between all the top end mods.I don`t have sound equipment so I rely on my personal observations which might contradict the next man who does the very same thing

My method has always been to compare each mod side by side fired in the same conditions on the same guns consecutively.In my opinion where the mods differ most are the characteristics that split second after the shot due to the materials used in manufacture.For example the Reflex rings(hence the neopreme covers) as does the pes to a lesser extent.I found the Atec sounded more of a thud as did the Wildcat.After that comes the whole package (quality-build-price-back up)

Lastly I will say that all the testing that I do is purely for my own selfish reasons.We sell all the top makes so it matters not to me what others use and we don`t get any kick backs or incentives from any maker whatsoever.Now if someone asks at least I can say what works for me but this might not be what the punter walks out of the door with.

 

Anyway good luck to The Whole Shooting Match and don`t forget to check out their new Camo which is the best camo I`ve seen for our woodland in summer

[Guest Hoot]

and hope it lasts longer then my A Tec

 

Pete

 

Would you care to offer a more detailed explanation re. your above comment?

 

Performance, quality as well as longevity's are all points for consideration before parting with your cash. WYA

[Guest Hoot]

WSm

 

Thanks for you in put.

 

I have no idea who Haggis from West country Guns is, but I'll take you word that he knows what he's on about.

[Wsm]

Haggis from WCG knows his stuff

 

Sorry IN MY OPINION Haggis from WCG knows his stuff

[Guest northernchris]

A good sound meter would help put this can of worms to bed.

[col48]

A good sound meter would help put this can of worms to bed.

 

 

hi Chris

 

i do have access to a sound meter, but it is not a mil speck one which is fast becoming the industry standard.

but the one i have will tell you if one mod is quieter than another.

but personally i think the best way to do it is by ear, as it matter not what a meter says,if you can not tell the difference between the 2 mods with your ears, who cares.

 

ATB

Colin

[Guest northernchris]

"mil spec" so why would you want to use a cheap one? Why not use hard fact and results to prove a product,thats why they have sound meters not some little man running around listening to stuff

[Wsm]

hi Chris

 

i do have access to a sound meter, but it is not a mil speck one which is fast becoming the industry standard.

but the one i have will tell you if one mod is quieter than another.

but personally i think the best way to do it is by ear, as it matter not what a meter says,if you can not tell the difference between the 2 mods with your ears, who cares.

 

ATB

Colin

 

Spot on Col

[Guest Hoot]

Hoot

why on earth would you want a detailed explanation from an over paid car dealer Iam not prepared to say until the job has been sorted,anyway what do I know Iam only an amateur

 

Pete

 

As I said longevity or lack of it is always a consideration. But if by explaining it would compromise your position I fully under stand. Even over paid car dealing amateur pundits can add information to the pool of knowledge.

 

All the best

 

Hoot

[Guest Hoot]

"mil spec" so why would you want to use a cheap one? Why not use hard fact and results to prove a product,thats why they have sound meters not some little man running around listening to stuff

 

Spot on Chris

 

Facts are facts. Opinions are opinions. There is often a world of difference between the two.

[col48]

"mil spec" so why would you want to use a cheap one? Why not use hard fact and results to prove a product,thats why they have sound meters not some little man running around listening to stuff

 

 

Chris/hoot

 

the mil speck is becoming the standard because sound equipment and the way it reads sound is so very easy to manipulate and you can make things read quieter than the actual are.

all so the distance from the meter, the angle of the shot taken to the meter, and the backstop material and distance all make up what the sound machine will read. this is not even touching on the different wave bands.

 

but The Whole Shooting Match has got a mil speck sound meter, i think it runs in at something like 12 grand

so if i would like the official figures i will ask Stuart for them,

but for me and us other mer mortals with out 12 grand to spend on a sound meter then the one i have will do. all so great emphasis must be put on if it sounds quieter to the naked ear then it might be worth swapping, but if it is only quieter on paper,and no perceivable difference to the naked ear,

y would you consider swapping.??????

 

 

hope this helps

 

Colin

[Guest Hoot]

so if i would like the official figures i will ask Stuart for them,

but if it is only quieter on paper,and no perceivable difference to the naked ear,

y would you consider swapping.??????

hope this helps

 

If the official figure are available I would like to read them Ta!

 

If a true like for like direct comparison test was conducted the one with the best results would be the quietest. Hence every reason to swap if needed. Removal of the human error is critical in any evaluation process. As Chris so succinctly stated earlier

[col48]

If the official figure are available I would like to read them Ta!

 

If a true like for like direct comparison test was conducted the one with the best results would be the quietest.

 

but this does not mean there would be any perceivable difference to the naked ear.

thus making swapping mods a futile and expensive mistake

 

Hence every reason to swap if needed.

 

y on earth would you want to swap a perfectly good mod,for a mod with a xxx decibel reading that you can not tell the difference with your old mod.every thing else being equal????

Removal of the human error is critical in any evaluation process.

unless the sound police are on your shoot, i would not let it worry your little head about no perceivable sound.

 

ATB

Colin

[ejg223]

This is not an easy subject,

measuring sound is easy, but is the result usefull???

 

I used to build fly modell aeroplanes and we were monitored for

noise levels consistantly. At competitions you had lads flying

low reving (low frequency) pattern planes doing 85 decibles at 5m or so.

I was into racing planes which had high reving engines and measured

130-140 decibles at 5m.

We did a test, went up a hill 2 miles away with both groups flying.

The only thing to hear was the low reving "quiet" plane.

Low frequencies travel well (fog horn)

 

I prefer to hear a moderator whistle than a deep 'wump'.

 

edi

[Guest Hoot]

Colin

 

The human ear is a delicate and unpredictable instrument. Non Percievable differences to the human ear are sometimes quite large especially when you are involved with those sound waves at the edges of our audible range. However those non pereceived differences can still be quite damaging to the human ear. If your primary reason for the use of a mod is the best possible protect of the ear then you would naturally want that which provided the maxium protection. Preceived or other wise.

 

I shall continue to concern my "little" head about such obvious matters, whilst you can remain free not to worry your "big" head about it if you so wish.

 

 

Is Petes the only Atec mod that has had to be returned?

[col48]

Colin

 

The human ear is a delicate and unpredictable instrument. Non Percievable differences to the human ear are sometimes quite large especially when you are involved with those sound waves at the edges of our audible range.However those non pereceived differences can still be quite damaging to the human ear. If your primary reason for the use of a mod is the best possible protect of the ear then you would naturally want that which provided the maxium protection. Preceived or other wise.

 

Intensity of sound is measured in decibels (dB). The scale runs from the faintest sound the human ear can detect, which is labeled 0 dB, to over 180 dB, the noise at a rocket pad during launch. Decibels are measured logarithmically, being 20 times the log of the ratio of a particular sound pressure to a reference sound pressure. This means that as decibel intensity increases by units of 20, each increase is 10 times the lower figure. Thus, 20 decibels is 10 times the intensity of 0 decibels, and 40 decibels is 100 times as intense as 20 decibels. Sound intensity may be given in two different units. Persons interested in the actual physical quantitification of sound use units of sound pressure level (SPL). SPL is calibrated to a constant sound pressure level that does not vary with frequency. On audiograms, however, sound intensity is calibrated in hearing level (HL), meaning that the reference sound is one that that just barely heard by a normal population. Thus HL units are relative ones and do not generally correspond to SPL units. Higher intensity (db) of sound causes more damage. Many experts agree that continual exposure to more than 85 decibels may become dangerous.

 

The following table illustrates some common sounds and their intensity.

 

The following table illustrates some common sounds and their intensity.

 

Approximate Decibel Level ......................................................Examples

0 dB ..........................................................................the quietest sound you can hear.

30 dB...............................................................whisper,quiet library.

60 dB......................................................................normal conversation, sewing machine, typewriter.

90 dB...........................................lawnmower, shop tools, truck traffic; 8 hours per day is the maximum exposure (protects 90% of people).

100 dB.........................................chainsaw, pneumatic drill, snowmobile; 2 hours per day is the maximum exposure without protection.

115 dB.......................................sandblasting, loud rock concert, auto horn; 15 minutes per day is the maximum exposure without protection.

140 dB......................................gun muzzle blast, jet engine; noise causes pain and even brief exposure injures unprotected ears; maximum allowed noise with hearing protector.

 

 

 

 

Frequency

Pitch is measured in frequency of sound vibrations per second, called Hertz (Hz). A low pitch such as a deep voice or a tuba makes fewer vibrations per second than a high voice or violin. Generally noise induce hearing loss occurs at a pitch of about 2000-4000 Hz. Frequency is measured in cycles per second, or Hertz (Hz). The higher the pitch of the sound, the higher the frequency. Young children, who generally have the best hearing, can often distinguish sounds from about 20 Hz, such as the lowest note on a large pipe organ, to 20,000 Hz, such as the high shrill of a dog whistle that many people are unable to hear.

 

 

 

Human speech, which ranges from 300 to 4,000 Hz, sounds louder to most people than noises at very high or very low frequencies. When hearing impairment begins, the high frequencies are often lost first, which is why people with hearing loss often have difficulty hearing the high-pitched voices of women and children.

Loss of high frequency hearing also can distort sound, so that speech is difficult to understand even though it can be heard. Hearing impaired people often have difficulty detecting differences between certain words that sound alike, especially words that contain S, F, SH, CH, H, or soft C, sounds, because the sound of these consonant is in a much higher frequency range than vowels and other consonants.

Duration

In addition, the duration (how long you are exposed to a noise) can affect the extent of noise indeed hearing loss. The longer you are exposed to a loud noise, the more damaging it may be.

 

Every gunshot produces a noise that could damage the ears of anyone in close hearing range. Large bore guns and artillery are the worst because they are the loudest. But even cap guns and firecrackers can damage your hearing if the explosion is close to your ear. Anyone who uses firearms without some form of ear protection risks hearing loss.

 

Habitual exposure to noise above 85 dB will cause a gradual hearing loss in a significant number of individuals, and louder noises will accelerate this damage. For unprotected ears, the allowed exposure time decreases by one half for each 5 dB increase in the average noise level. For instance, exposure is limited to 8 hours per day at 90 dB, 4 hours per day at 95 dB, and 2 hours per day at 100 dB. The highest permissible noise exposure for the unprotected ear is 115 dB for 15 minutes per day. Any noise above 140 dB is not permitted.

so you see swede / wilton/ harry/hoot

with the A-TEC mod coming in @ 26 to 30 db © (in line with every day use)

and how db are calculated around how we actual hear things, I'm afraid perceived noise will only ever be just that perceived.

ATB

Colin

 

 

 

Is Pete's the only Atec mod that has had to be returned?

 

i can not remember anyone saying a mod has had to be returned????

there you go again making something out of nothing. i would not worry your little head about this one as well, as being proved wrong is becoming a habit.

[baldie]

Its always gonna be a difficult subject, is moderators, and noise, as i suppose its going to be different for everyone,s ear, as we all have varying degrees of deafness.There is only one way, and thats a top quality sound instrument, a selection of mods, and fit them all to the same rifle, and use exactly the same ammo. That would give a true decibel reading, but even then, different peoples ears may disagree with the meter. I think generally, people tend to go with what their ears tell them, i know i do. I,ve owned, pes, t4,s, t8,s, and an a/tec, and tested wildcats, jet z,s and hushers. I havent seen the new one but initial "bush telegraph" comments indicated, its very quiet indeed, but again, thats subjective. The only comment i would make on reading the initial reviews, is that, PERSONALLY, i didn,t like the idea of the rods, and small nuts, they looked too fiddly, and prone to gumming up, but i believe the design has changed?

Working in the trade, we sell a lot of mods, but to be honest, the deciding factors, we hear time and time again, are initial cost, and ease of stripping/cleaning, as people are worried about longevity. The minute differences between noise level,s dont bother 90% of your average punter...weight is also a big factor. I think its only us "anoraks" to a degree, who wonder more about the sound differences, i,m the first to admit, moderators have always fascinated me, but i think they have basically got as quiet as they are going to get, within the constraints of weight, materials, cost , size etc.

I,m always glad to see new ones and new ideas, because thats how progress is made, and i hope the chap from the whole shooting match does very well with them. Variety is the spice of life gentlemen.