NF CH3 reticule

[Elwood]

Can anyone tell me if this is suitable for 1000 yards, F class style shooting? It says on the NF website that it is a benchrest reticule.

 

I'm concerned that the dot might be to small and get lost on the target, however my eye sight is still pretty good.

[varminter]

Hi Buddy ,

Just a personal taste here but i have used the NP DD in the lightforce NXS and its a cracker!!!

Used mine out to a 1000yds on targets / bunnies with the 6.5-284 and i found it a excellent recticle!!!

Even when shooting at bunnies at 700yds plus i could still see the body either side of the dot!!

Cracking reticle too if you want to use it for Foxy when lamping!!!

All the best.......................

RAY..............................

[Laurie]

Elwood,

 

F-Class targets usually have a central white circular aiming mark, so fine crosshair and crosshair plus small dot reticles work well - are ideal in fact as an over thick reticle can blank out too much of the target centre.

 

You do pay a fair bit extra though for the illuminated central dot - although Nightforce says this facility makes it ideal for BR shooting, most F-Class and BR competitors regard illuminated reticles as a waste of money and an unecessary added weight (an issue in F/TR) and complication you can well do without.

 

I'd agree with varminter that the NP2-DD dot based reticle works well in this application too, although not verybody likes this type.

 

The CH3 and other very 'fine' target reticles are really designed for white paper / clearly delineated targets - they're not so

good for sporting shooting in dull conditions or on indistinct targets.

 

Te other thing to consider is judging aim-off for wind. Unlike Target Rifle shooters with their iron sights who change the windage setting for each shot according to their reading of the conditions, most F-Classers adjust the windage drum to an 'average windage zero' during the first few shots, then leave the drum alone aiming off to either side according to their reading of any change in the wind from that at the start. Many F-Classers like a fine Mil-Dot reticle to help here as the dots provide a reference point for aiming-off, the standard full mil measurement equating to 2.4-MOA, but some target scopes have half-or even quarter-Mil hash marks for finer estimation.

 

Laurie

[Ronin]

NP R1 or NP R2 is better (IMHO)

 

 

 

I have NP R1, works for me.

 

As Laurie says, ajust to average wind then hold off......

[Elwood]

Laurie, firstly welcome to the board and thanks for a most informative first post, if you reply to all my questions in that depth your finger tips will be bleeding

 

Ray and Andy, I have both the rets you mention and I do agree with you Ray the NP-2DD takes some beating as an all rounder and of course makes it a much more easier to sell scope if and when S&B bring out their 10-50 and of course if they have a suitable reticle, does anyone know what reticles they plan to use?

 

I had a look through a March 10-60 on Sunday but didn't have time to compare it against anything, it did look nice and clear but the reticle was 1/16 and I found it hard to pick up, but it was against a black target, hence my original question.

[Ronin]

Forgot to add, welcome to the board Laurie.

 

(You wouldn't have a red Elesio tube gun do you?)

[ds1]

I had a chat with S&B the other day - got the up to date data sheet on the 12-50x56 PMII.

 

Reticules are P4F or P3 'sport' (sort of cross hairs and 2 dots) in FFP or 2FP. No illuminated reticule.

 

Clicks - available in 0.25cm clicks, 1/8 moa, 1/4 moa. Silly to me to have a good mil based reticlule (P4F) and offer it with only one mil based click option - 0.25cm clicks.

 

Turrets double and multi-turn, MOA varies cca 65moa - 75 moa depending on double or multi turn and click value. some options on ccw or cw click direction.

 

With the 0.25cm option windage is only 16cm L and R (single turn). The 1/4 and 1/8 moa versions have more I think (14 -16 moa).

 

What really sucks is eye relief only 70mm!!!! I sent them an email asking if this is correct.

 

David.

[Elwood]

David, thanks for passing that on it's much appreciated. I don't suppose they gave you a release date? I had heard October.

[ds1]

I didn't really ask for a date but got the impression the scope was just now going into normal production, so October would seem right.

 

It does seem very much like a F Class shooters dream.I wish it had been like a 5-25PMII on steroids - lit reticule and 0.1 milrad adjustnents.

 

David

[Ronin]

Would be awesome if it was..

 

 

Now appears like PE.....

[ds1]

These are the details I got anyway - thoughts please (I was thinking about one for a 50bmg - the eye relief is not reassuring).

 

12-50x56 PMII P

• Aluminium tube, Ø34 mm without rail

• Surface: decorative hard anodised (black)

• Reticle in 1. and 2. focal plane

• Elevation (Double Turn, Multi Turn)

• Windage adjustment

• Parallax adjustment from 10 m to ∞

 

Optical data

Magnification: 12x – 50x

Field of view 100 m: 4.20 m – 1.10 m

 

Exit pupil: 4.55 mm – 1.18 mm

Eye relief distance: 70 mm

Twilight factor: 25.9 – 52.9

Light transmission: min. 90% at day- and night-measuring

 

Technical data

Diopter setting: +2 dptr. bis -3 dptr.

Elevation adjustment: DT ¼ MOA ccw 0-65 MOA

DT ¼ MOA cw 0-65 MOA

MT 1/8 MOA ccw 0-75 MOA

MT 1/8 MOA cw 0-75 MOA

MT ¼ cm cw 0-175 cm

 

Windage adjustment:

ST ¼ MOA ccw +/- 16 MOA

ST ¼ MOA cw +/- 16 MOA

ST ¼ cm cw +/- 16 cm

DT 1/8 MOA ccw +/- 14 MOA

DT 1/8 MOA cw +/- 14 MOA

Parallax adjustment: 10 m to ∞

 

Weight: 1080 g

Water proofness: 300 mbar inner pressure (equals 3 m water depth)

Storage and operational temperatures

Storage temp. (cold): -40°C

Storage temp. (warm): +70°C

Operational temp. (cold): -25°C

Operational temp. (warm): +55°C at 92% relative air humidity

 

Reticles

Focal plane 1: P3, P4F

Focal plane 2: P3, P4F, Sport, SportF

 

DT = Double Turn – ST = Single Turn – MT = Multi Turn – cw = clockwise - ccw = counter clockwise

[Elwood]

Seems that they are doing a tactical reticle

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2007/...imate-big-zoom/

 

I'm thinking the sport fine would suit my needs?

[Laurie]

Hi guys,

 

I actually have an S&B 12-50X56, one of only 12 that made it into this country late last year. York Guns is the primary, in effect sole, importer for S&B these days although the Germans won't say so publicly.

 

YGL expects the second shipment sometime before the end of this year, officially October-November, but since that shipment was originally promised for January-February 2009, well I'd wait and see!

 

The first lot all had the new 'Sport' dot based reticle, obviously inspired by the NF NP2-DD, but not a simple copy. At that time Scmidt said that was the only reticle that would be provided, but have since added the P4 Fein (modified Mil-Dot with hash marks instead of dots and sub Mil small hash marks). As I like the NP2-DD setup, the 'Sport' suits me too, although the primary (central) dot is a bit larger than I would like and can cover a small aiming mark up.

 

The resolution etc is good, as yopu'd expect - you can use the 50x setting assuming mirage isn't a problem, which it rarely is at Diggle!. I loaned my example to Vince Bottomely who should do a write-up in the online magazine www.targetshooter.co.uk sometime soon. Vince did say he wasn't overly impressed by the accuracy of the click settings on the drums, but we'll have to see when his review is published.

 

Looks-wise it's nearly identical to the existing 5-25X56 PMII Gen 2, except there is no illuminated ret battery compartment / control on the rear body given the absence of illumination. It's a heavy bugger at around 2.5lbs with ARMS 34mm QD lever-mounts on - a problem in F/TR or benchrest 'Light Gun'.

 

It's the best and most expensive scope I've ever bought, or expect to buy - a once in a lifetime purchase. One benefit is that you can easily swap it between rifles using milspec Picatinny rails and QD levermounts. With all windage encompassed in a single turn of the windage knob, and all elevation (66-MOA worth) in two turns of its knob, also colour coded with yellow bars showing when you're on the upper turn, you cannot get lost in the settings. Just record your zero as turn 1 / 2 and elevation number. Windage is marked as 1 to 30 either side of a zero figure calibrated in quarter-MOA sub marks, so you reset the scope for another rifle in seconds. You can now justify the price to the missus by saying it saves buying three Nightforces, or whatever!

 

If you want to see a pic have a look at my two-part article on the Savage 12 competition series rifles in www.targetshooter.co.uk, either the archived June or July issue (I forget which now) has a pic of the 12-F rifle with the scope mounted.

 

Laurie

[ds1]

Hi Laurie,

 

I was going to send this by PM - but your PM is not yet enabled.

 

Please can I ask you a question about your S&B PMII 12-50x56.

 

Do you think the eye relief is sufficent and what rifle do you shoot it on? I would like to buy several of these scopes and would like to use one an a 50bmg AI AW50 but find 2.7" to be very small eye relief.

 

Many thanks,

 

David.

 

(sorry to Elwood for hijacking this thread).

 

(sorry to everyone else for going on about eye relief)

[Elwood]

Hi Laurie,

 

I was going to send this by PM - but your PM is not yet enabled.

 

Please can I ask you a question about your S&B PMII 12-50x56.

 

Do you think the eye relief is sufficent and what rifle do you shoot it on? I would like to buy several of these scopes and would like to use one an a 50bmg AI AW50 but find 2.7" to be very small eye relief.

 

Many thanks,

 

David.

 

(sorry to Elwood for hijacking this thread).

 

(sorry to everyone else for going on about eye relief)

 

David, not to worry it's a valid question.

 

Laurie, would you say the new S&B is designed for F class and is the sport reticle suitable for half MOA V bulls at 1000 yards? (as if I'm ever going to hit any

[Ronin]

David

 

Eye relief on most PM11's is a minimum of 85mm (from S&B web site)

 

Eye relief on NF (32 and 42power) is around 98mm (I think), this figure is possibly average, not minimum?

 

Ive seen video of the AI 50 being shot with a 3-12 PM11, and there appears to be sufficient relief from the recoil (providing one has a brake)

 

 

Of the 50's ive seen and shot, most had either Leup or NF scopes fitted.

 

I wouldnt shoot one (a 50cal) without a brake, what I am trying to say is that if the minimum eye relief is 77mm on the 50 power S&B, its not a great difference to the minimum of the other PM11's (8mm)

 

I get along fine with my 338 with the 4-16 PM11 unbraked, whilst recoil from that is different to the 50, there's still a bit of movement....

[Laurie]

S&B 12-50 PMII eye-relief?

 

can't say it's been a problem to date, so I've never given it any thought.

 

However, the odd thing is that I've only ever used the scope off benchrests to date, and your head / eye position is quite different from using the same rifles shooting prone, so I'll only have a full picture when I do that.

 

Use to date does include the Savage 12 F in 6.5-284 on the bench, and it comes back pretty fast and hard on the bags. So far, my right eyebrow has escaped injury.

 

Laurie

[Elwood]

I have just been talking to someone very helpful at York guns, I'm informed that they are hoping to take delivery of the next batch in October. He also told me the sport reticle was designed for F class and so obviously the sport dot would be suitable for 600-1000, and if it wasn't to ones liking then it wouldn't be that much hassle to change it if they brought a finer one out.

 

The two reticles coming are P4 fine FFP and sport dot SFP, anyway they are going to call me when they arrive.

[Laurie]

Hello David (and anyone else out there in the ether).

 

I've now activated my PM facility.

 

Regards,

 

Laurie