CZ 527 Varmint

[triumph59]

Hi Guys, i am after a bit of help or advice.

I recently purchased a CZ 527 Varmint in 223 (Laminated Stock and Screw Cut) The reason i bought this rifle was a couple of my friends who go foxing swear by them, and recomended me to buy one. I have had the gun for about 4 weeks and am unable to get a decent group, i have a place were i can go Zeroing and is measured at 100 yards, which i thought would be perfect for the purpose of the gun. i have had four attempts of getting a decent group on different days and each thime this is what happens.

I have been using the small Birchwood Casey shoot n see targets and after the first time of zeroing i can very easily hit the bull with the 1st shot (about thre size of a 2p coin) the second shot is usually only 1/2 inch away away then my group opens right up to about three or four inches. I have tried all kinds of ammo Fed 55 & 62 grn and today i was shooting Rem 55grn but the same thing happens. i let the gun cool down for a few minutes and then have another go, it just seems that from cold, the gun is fantastic and the fifth shot can go anywhere. I am starting to get a bit annoyed now, i was even told that when i put a moddy on the end my group should come together. I am not a believer in that, as i would of thought that i should be getting at least a 1 to 2 inch group. has anyone of you Guys had a problem like this? should i try something different ? i have tried 5 brands of Ammo including Wolf, PMC, Winchester, and even a box of RG. Should i go down the road and trade it in for a Tikka? or shall i stick with it and try different things? All help will be greatly appreciated. Just for the record i am using a loopy 6.5-20 x 50 scope, Hilver rings, and a Harris Bipod, and have been shooting off of a table.

[Guest 308Panther]

Triumph59

 

Is the gun new or used?

 

 

In either case, I would check stock/barrel clearences.

Check for any loose screws or overtightened screws.

Replace the Hilver rings w/ another brand ring....Someone else on the board had a problem with the same brandname ring as yours.I wouldnt be suprised to hear yours were bad also.

And its not the first time a bad batch of rings has slipped thru QC.

 

If used, I would have a good gunsmith look at the barrel and make sure it is not shot out, and have him look at the muzzle crown also.

Did the rifle come with the original box? and was the test target in the box?

CZ,includes a test target or at least my 452A .17 HMR came with one when I bought it new.

 

Best of luck.

 

308Panther

[nuttyspaniel]

Sounds similar to my prob I had with my 222 mate!!! The scope shifting in the rings! Try another set and see how you get on, even borrow a set of a mate but I think more or less changing the rings will help.

[Andrew]

If I were you I'd ditch that Harris bi bod and shoot off of sand bags. A bipod is a field expedient and not used for grouping. If that doesn't help, Follow the advice posted by others... especially the part about checking the bedding. CZ's are fine rifles but they seldom come without needing some wood work in the barrel channel. For the money, they can't be beat. ( have four of them in my gunroom!) Good luck! ~Andrew

[millpool]

hi trimph

what twist rate in your barrel 1in9 or 1in 12 i have acz527 in 223 with the 1 i 9 twist i roll my own ammo as does a very good freind also on the sight,charly hunter the load we use is 25.2 grn benchmark under a 50 grn v max saami length ,we were having a play today ,shot a 1" group at 300yds ,out last weelk and hit a bunny at 275yds ,another good freind on the sight ,silent ,shot a 1" group with 5rnds at 100 yds ,THESE RIFLES ARE STUNNING!!! try the load we use ,awsome,and i am using a 10 x scope !

[charly hunter]

Hi Pard, Had a similar problem myself just a few weeks ago with the very same rifle, which was strange as I know this rifle is a tack driver, on closer inspection I found that one of the screws had come loose in the stock, so a quick tighten and I was back on form. Addmitedly I reload my own which does help with the groups. These groups below were shot at 100yds using a harris bipod off a bale of straw. The targets are 1 & 1/2 inches across the first one was without the mod and the second one was with the mod, so a mod will tighten the group on some rifles, I am not going to say it will do it on all rifles, but on 3 of my CZ's it does.

 

 

I am a firm beliver that you should set your zero up the same way as you would be shooting in the field, that way you will recreate the same comditions each time you take a shot. As Andrew implies you may well shoot better off a shooting bag on the range but if you then go out in the field and put a bi-pod on the rifle you may well move the zero due to a a different presure point on the stock.

 

Once you have changed the rings and checked the screws are tight, if you find this is still happening see if you can slide a peice of papper between the barrel and the stock, if there is a tight spot get your dremel out and start sanding, don't be afraid to have plenty of clearance. If this is good then try wedging a small bit of card in the forend of the stock which will then cause the barrel to be touching in affect the stock so it doesn't float, this may sound daft but it does work for some rifles.

 

If you don't have the know how, time, interest or money to re-load try asking your mates if they reload maybe they will load for you if you suply the cases, powder etc. if there is a way you can get some loaded for you try this load as it works very well in .223 wether a 1 in 9 or a 1 in 14 twist barrel;

25.2 grains of Benchmark Powder.

50 grain V-Max bullet

Fed primmer

Lapua Case ( I am not sure the make of case makes a lot of differance as I have used all sorts with the same effects)

Over all length of 2.200 inches.

 

And this load as Millpool has said is shooting a 1 inch group at 300 yds.

It is a process of elimination pard but stick with it as the CZ is a great rifle and in .223 as well once you have sorted this out you will have an emense amount of fun.

[Andrew]

Lord. Shouldn't everyone who subscribes to being a "varminter" reload? Can you get the classic "Lee Loader" in the UK? I have gotten quite a few feet wet in the reloading game with these simple, inexpensive tools. The cartridges you can produce have proven themselves to be as good (accurate) as those made with standard bench mounted equipment. Specifically, I tested .223 loads to see which was better: the cartridges loaded with RCBS equipment and those loaded by the $22 (US) Lee Loader. They shot equally well. If you are tempted to reload, these tools are a great way to try it for little investment. ~Andrew

[Alycidon]

Once you start to reload it is a just so addictive it is a one way street with no way back. It is just so satisfing to produce 20 or 30 nice shiny rounds from a heap of used brass.

 

A

[triumph59]

Triumph59

 

Hi Panther. Yes the Gun is brand new and out of the Box, i never noticed any "Test target with it though. I have done as you said and taken the Barreled action out of the stock. I ran a piece of paper along the barrel and all appears fine.

I did notice under the reciever a small oblong block that fits into a cutout in the stock, this was filled with some kind of bedding compound and had squidged out on building. I cleaned it up with a small file and now looks a lot neater.

I have put it back together, and tightened the screws up to an equal pressure (very Tight)

As for the rings these are well and truly locked on, both on the Reciever and scope to ring, with no play or movement.

I am not a big fan of these rings as only having two screws to hold the scope does not appear to be sufficient.

I will bow to your superior Knowledge and change them though. I will keep you posted, and let you Know how i get on.

Unfortuneately i will not be getting out for a fortnight due to work comitments

[triumph59]

Thanks Nuttyspaniel. I have checked out my rings and they are locked solid. I will change them for another set though. Was yours a CZ? can you recomend a decent set of rings? I have noiced that Sportsmatch now do a set bases for a CZ 527, to enable you use any of there rings. Cheers mate

[charly hunter]

As you won't be getting out for a while that just means that when you do get out you will enjoy it all the more even if you still have teething problems, it's a leaning circle that many of us go through, and there are some very helpful guys on here that are only to willing to help you out.

Where abouts are you? Never know there may well be someone on here in your area that can help you out.

[triumph59]

Thanks Andrew. I have shot off the Bipod and also tried a Predator shooting rest. I will try Sandbags the next time i go shooting.

When you say that CZ's need a little work in the barrel chanel, will fine sanding be sufficient ?? I can slide a piece of paper between the barrel and stock Thanks once again Andrew.

[triumph59]

hi trimph

what twist rate in your barrel 1in9 or 1in 12 i have acz527 in 223 with the 1 i 9 twist i roll my own ammo as does a very good freind also on the sight,charly hunter the load we use is 25.2 grn benchmark under a 50 grn v max saami length ,we were having a play today ,shot a 1" group at 300yds ,out last weelk and hit a bunny at 275yds ,another good freind on the sight ,silent ,shot a 1" group with 5rnds at 100 yds ,THESE RIFLES ARE STUNNING!!! try the load we use ,awsome,and i am using a 10 x scope !

Thanks Millpool. Well as for twist rate i am not really sure. On the CZ website there is NO mention of twist rate, The Gun is a 527 varmint with Grey Laminate Stock. I was told by the dealer that it is a 1 in 12 is there anyway of checking ? i cant see anything on the stock or barrel. I rang Edgar Brothers and they said it was a 1 in 9 And WOW that is Great Shooting, i would love a 1" group at 100yds let alone 300yds I will let you know how i get on ...Thanks again Millpool..

[triumph59]

Thanks Charly hunter. that is a great post that you have replied with. Yes i have tightened up the screws and am confident on that front. I am really really impressed with your shooting (a bit jealous too) LOL I do plan on loading my own , and have all the loading gear, I load my Own .44 & .357 Have never done any .223. Can you recommend me what dies i should get? i have used LEE for all other loading, But am a bit confused with the different rifle dies. I have taken note on your recommended load , and will definately give it a bash. Whe you say 50gnr V Max, are these Hornady?

I am also suprised the difference in the targets, shooting with and without a moddy, i plan on getting a T8 in the next couple of weeks, so this has also filled me with a little bit of confidence Is yours the same gun as mine? what is your twist rate? and would you please be so kind to let me know which rings you are using. Thanks again Charly

OH and i live just out side Wycombe Bucks

[Ronin]

Iv'e worked on a friends rifle (CZ 6.5x55) that did the same thing - two shots together and the third and incha and a half off.

 

The problem is possibly caused by as already mentioned - shifting scope, incorrectly tightened action screws.

 

However, it is more likely that the action is shifting in the bedding and or the barrel is bearing on the forend somewhere. (like my mates rifle was)

 

 

I opened up the barrel channel by 1/8th inch - rifle consistantly shoots sub MOA now.

[triumph59]

Iv'e worked on a friends rifle (CZ 6.5x55) that did the same thing - two shots together and the third and incha and a half off.

 

The problem is possibly caused by as already mentioned - shifting scope, incorrectly tightened action screws.

 

However, it is more likely that the action is shifting in the bedding and or the barrel is bearing on the forend somewhere. (like my mates rifle was)

I opened up the barrel channel by 1/8th inch - rifle consistantly shoots sub MOA now.

 

Thanks Andy, I am on nights this week and will be taking the rifle to work with me. (I get along braek on nights)I will use different grades of paper and open up the channel about 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch. I can already slide a piece of paper along the length of the barrel, but it is not that smooth.

Thanks again Andy, your comments are most welcome

[Guest 308Panther]

Hi Triumph....

 

LOL...Bowing isnt necessary.

Look at or search out CZ USA if the link dont work...

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=14

 

Its listed is a 1:12

I doubt that the factory is gonna change or go to another rifleing for your market

as it would add another step to the process....Someone would have to sort which goes where

kinda thing....and even the other model 527's listed there in .223 are 1:12 as well

 

Handloading for the .223 isnt really needed to get good accurate results, as it is

a very accurate round to begin with.........you might not get a 1 in group at 3 hundred but

a group of 2 inches wouldnt be that far off the mark.

Thats why everyone speaks so highly of the .223 as a varmint cartridge.

Handloading for the .223 does bring out the very best of what the .223 is capable of.

Just as it would for any caliber.

 

I am very suprised that yours isnt sub moa out of the box....

as most CZ rifles are.

 

There is one other thing you could do yourself to help speed the breakin process of

your barrel....But its one of those things thats done with an extreme amount of discretion.

as its easily over done...and the end result would be that accuracy suffers.

I am even hesitant to mention it because its one of those things that people look at if a little is good...then more is better.

Barrel Lapping.

But it is better left to a good gunsmith to do.

And this would be as a last resort type action.

 

I would try to get ahold of the CZ Rep in your area and work with him and see what he has to say...

 

308Panther

[millpool]

hi truimp

i forgot to say mycz527 in 223 is the one in the hs presion stock ,i also use a t8mod on mine i am also 99% that yous has a 1in 12 twist ,their is a guy at our range who shots the same rifle and with factory ammo gets really good results ,i also agree with charly hunter ,use the same set up for range work as you would use in the feild ,then you wont get any nasty shocks with placement,i have an ssg69 in .308 of a harris bipod with no rear rest it will shoot a qtr min of angle,i dont use any rear rest with the 223 either ,same set up each time ,i used to fafe about changing this, changing that ,just end up chasing your tail stick with one set up and when you get a load your happy with,dont change it!!!

good luck

[Andrew]

I am curious as to why a "new" CZ came with no test fire target and a bedded recoil lug. Unless this bedding is something they started recently -or is something specific to the varmint model- it isn't a factory job. Both of my CZ 527 American Hornets (mine and my son's, that is) got glassed in that area because the inletting was poor from the factory. Here, once a rifle leaves the dealer it can never be sold as new again; are there such safe guards in the UK?

 

No disrespect Panther, but I have yet to see a CZ that needed lapping and I would advise against it.~Andrew

[charly hunter]

Triumph 59 you won't go far wrong with lee dies, I also crimp my cases using a Lee crimping die which is only 8-10 quid. i use RCBS dies for my 223 but they are a pain as you have to lube every case and they get sticky and dirty, but the Lee ones you just pop em' in and I have not had a problem with them that is in my 243 so as soon as money alows I shall have Lee dies in 223. Much finer adjustment with Lee unless you want to spend loads on competion dies.

I use a T8 mod and I have a bog standard CZ sporting rifle, no heavy barrel or fast twist, I think mine is 1 in 12 and it works for me, I have not bedded the barrel or spent lots of time buggering about with it I have a load that shoots well to the ranges that I need to shoot to be able to control foxes, rabbits etc so I am not going to change it. If you want to shoot F class or any other competion then you will want to spend lots of money and time to get the rifle shooting very, very well but for general varmint use mine does the job. Your a little way from me pard as I am in Cornwall, bu6t if you ever get down this way let me know and I will give you a night out or just go shoot some paper during the day.

You will get there in the end pard, stick with it.

Nigel.

[Guest 308Panther]

I am curious as to why a "new" CZ came with no test fire target and a bedded recoil lug. Unless this bedding is something they started recently -or is something specific to the varmint model- it isn't a factory job. Both of my CZ 527 American Hornets (mine and my son's, that is) got glassed in that area because the inletting was poor from the factory. Here, once a rifle leaves the dealer it can never be sold as new again; are there such safe guards in the UK?

 

No disrespect Panther, but I have yet to see a CZ that needed lapping and I would advise against it.~Andrew

 

 

Understood,and Agreed.....I have yet to see one that needed it,also.

 

I think it was Varmint Al that gave his New CZ .17HMR an additional 100 strokes when he did his "tests" of the .17 HMR.His websight I believe is on the advertisements page.

If there was or were any actual benefits to doing that(lapping) I dont know.

 

It was a process I didnt use on mine ...I chose to shoot my new barrel in.

 

No test target makes me curious too.

When I was in the shop looking at the rifle that was soon to be mine,the salesman went to go get the box....and very intently started to open it up and was tossing the owners manual and the warranty and other papers to the side...I had to ask him what he was looking for...His reply was..."The test target".

and in a few seconds search was able to produce it.It was numbered specifically to the rifle(mine) that fired it.

 

I figured my rifle wasnt the only one to come with one ..it was a CZ practice to include one.Even on centerfire rifles.

 

Since its a" New" rifle or even possibly " Like New,Unfired "...

I would still get ahold of the Rep before doing anything and see what he has to say.

He may even be able to run the serial number and see if it has been sold previously as I believe the UK Governmental paper trail is alot longer than ours over here, and they most likely can tell ya the pant and shirt size of the previous owner, if there was one.

If the rep werent able to do anything,I would still have a good gunsmith look at it.

 

308Panther

[triumph59]

Thanks Panther, i was only looking on the European Site, and i can't see any mention of twist rates on there. The CZ USA site is so much more informative, thanks for that. I am quite convinced that when i go shooting next , all my proiblems will dissapear. I am gonna get a new set of rings this week, and then gonna smooth the channel in my stock, the screws will be tightened up (Can anyone recommend a set of rings to try?)

I will be shooting factory ammo next time too, mostly Federal Game Shok and Remington, and it will most prob be at NRA Bisley.

mmmm Barell Lapping, sorry Panther never heard of that, but it does sound far to technical for me so i will give that a miss

Millpool Yup millpool mine is a 1 in 12, and i agree that when i have shot all my factory ammo (I got heaps to get through) i will only shoot Reloads at the range and in the field, makes sense really.

Andrew Well Andrew my gun came ready screw cut and supplied by the importers "Edgar Brothers" apparently EB send there guns to a company called "Riflecraft" for screw cutting, i can only imagine that the test target (if supplied) was probably lost in transit. According to my Local Dealer, he told me today that CZ Varmints do come with a bedded lug, he had one in stock and verified it for me. Has anyone else on here had a test target supplied with a CZ? Just wondering really, maybe it is something the Czechs do for the US or other markets.

Charly Hunter Well Nigel thanks for the invite , you never know i may suprise you one day Paper punching will do for me.

I have dug out all my LEE catalogues and will get myself a set of Dies when i get paid, I got lots of FED & REM brass but no LAPUA at £38.00 per 100 i think i will stick with what i have. I can get 100 55grn V Max heads for £14.00 and the Powder is gonna be approx £26:00 but with the Powder i should get enough for 250 reloads, so all in all i dont think it is gonna be and arm and a leg to get myself sorted, Oh and luckily i already have a thoudsand Fed primers.

And yes Nigel i agree 100% i dont want to do much messing about with the rifle, i am looking at it as a tool for Varmints. I only bought the Laminated Stock version cuz i thought it looked pretty On a more serious note, I do have other Guns and i shoot at Bisley out to 600yds. i am not really into Comp shooting, just a bit of fun with friends, and the looser buys the beer afterwards I Don't think i will ever be shooting Varmints at that distance, but 300 looks like it may be possible.

Anyway Guys thanks for all the advice it was very much appreciated. I have learnt so much in the last few days, and i must say that i really enjoyed your posts. It is real great when you can come on here with a problem, and get others to put your mind at rest

Anyway i am off shooting weds the 22nd at Bisley so if anyone wants to join me i will see you there, and i will post my result when i get home. I just got this feeling that you guys have solved my problem.

PS Can anyone give me some advice on Rings for the 527?? thanks Guys

[Guest 308Panther]

I dont know whats available to you....

Or what the other guys do....

But I like to match the base,rings and scope Brand if at all possible.

Leupold Scope,Leupold Rings,Leupold Base...This is what is on my Win 70.

In the case of my CZ 452 A...It is a CZ Weaver Base,Leupold QRW Rings and Leupold Scope

Currently on My AR Leupold QRW Rings and Leupold Scope...although I am considering a set of Badger Ordnance rings,as an option I may have to go to once I install the Magpul PRS Stock.

I'll know more once I have the stock mounted....

 

One thing I think that all will agree on.....Stay away from aluminium rings.

No matter the brand name.

 

308Panther

[6ppc]

Triumph with regards to rings i have a set of Talley rings on my CZ 17AH and they are fantastic,i also use Tally on all of my custom rifles too and have had absolutley no problems with any of them.

[charly hunter]

Fed brass will work just fine I use it, as a guy I know who doesn't reload but shoots foxes saves his cases for me and they if I remember rightly are what I shot the groups with. Let us all know your results when you have done all the changes everyone on here has mentioned