Anyone with Quickload or similar want to have a play?

[casts_by_fly]

Hi All,

 

I can't get quickload as it is windows only. Anyone want to have a play for me?

 

I like the ballistics of the 25-06, but want a rimmed cartridge for a break action gun. Looking through my manuals, I was curious what a 9.3x74 would do if you necked it down to either 25 or 26 caliber (I'd end up using s-dies or a custom die set, so nothing changed but the neck really). I'd hope to get 100 gr moving around 3200 in either gun. I'm thinking about a lightning rod for whitetails back home. The 25-06 really does the biz for a lot of people, I just want a rimmed cartridge. The 9.3x74 is about the same capacity as the -06, and a little lower pressure.

 

My other option would be a 257 Roberts AI built on 7x57R cases. Not quite 25-06 velocities, but almost there.

 

Alternatively, is there a rimmed cartridge that can be made into 25-06 (or similar) fairly easily? Bonus points if it is something common and/or cheap.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Scotch_egg]

I haven't got quick load but how about basing it on the .307 winchester instead. Should be plenty of brass about. Just quater bore it with an ackley neck.

 

regards

 

Dave

[ejg223]

.30 R Blaser, if you can get brass. Same pressure as 30-06 just a bit more volume and rimmed.

or... the 6.5x68 R slightly lower pressure to the non rimmed 6.5x68 (3900 bar vs 4400bar)

or 6.5x65R RWS (3800bar)

edi

[Alycidon]

Talk to Vermincinerator about the 257AI Roberts, he built himself one a few months ago. Seems a nice round, he certainly has killed some long stuff with it but bullet expansion on varmint type targets is a bit of an issue. I watched him shoot two crows both at about 180 yards with NBT'S and both got drilled rather than exploded. I also watched him shoot a fox at about 100 yards, that went down pretty comprehensivly but with no more damage than my 6mm and Vmax.

 

The round/bullet is ideal for deer but a bit heavy and thick jacketed for rapid expansion on smaller targets. I think he is going to try some Vmax to speed expansion up. But for your Whitetails it will work and work well.

 

You can design a case using Quickload but no one seems to know how to do it except according to Julian Bruce Potts. My version is now pretty old (2002) but if anyone here can now give me a step by step idiots guide it would be helpfull. My instructions are very complex.

 

I actually tried to load it onto this computer the other day without success.

 

 

A

[pnse]

Talk to Vermincinerator about the 257AI Roberts, he built himself one a few months ago. Seems a nice round, he certainly has killed some long stuff with it but bullet expansion on varmint type targets is a bit of an issue. I watched him shoot two crows both at about 180 yards with NBT'S and both got drilled rather than exploded. I also watched him shoot a fox at about 100 yards, that went down pretty comprehensivly but with no more damage than my 6mm and Vmax.

 

The round/bullet is ideal for deer but a bit heavy and thick jacketed for rapid expansion on smaller targets. I think he is going to try some Vmax to speed expansion up. But for your Whitetails it will work and work well.

 

You can design a case using Quickload but no one seems to know how to do it except according to Julian Bruce Potts. My version is now pretty old (2002) but if anyone here can now give me a step by step idiots guide it would be helpfull. My instructions are very complex.

 

I actually tried to load it onto this computer the other day without success.

 

 

A

 

the program for designing a case's is called quickdesign,as to trying to load your copy,have you changed over to vista as your 2002 copy will be xp.

atb Paul

[Ronin]

I have got the up to date versions of QL and QD, if I get the time I will have a look.

[casts_by_fly]

Hi guys,

 

I thought about the 307 win, but case capacity would be a little low. It would basically make a 25 souper rimmed, which pushes the 100's around 2900-3000 from what I've found.

 

The 30R blaser and 6.5x68R sound promising. I'll see what I can dig up on them.

 

Al,

 

Everything I've heard about the Bob is that it is a mild shooting great cartridge. The Bob AI just puts a little more zip on the bullets. I'm not looking for light bullets or expansion at all. It would be strictly a deer gun. I'm figuring the 100 gr BT to be the bullet in a 25 cal, though the 110 accubond might do it as well. The 100 gr BT at 3200 will hold a +/- 5" MPBR out to 350 or 375, and 400 yards is only pushing about 8" low (so hold level with the top of the back). That's pretty tough to beat for whitetails.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Scotch_egg]

Rick, did you take into account blowing the shoulder forward? I just think you will have better availability of brass. I'll look up the .25 souper rimmed. I couldn't find it when googled earlier.

 

Dave

[Alycidon]

the program for designing a case's is called quickdesign,as to trying to load your copy,have you changed over to vista as your 2002 copy will be xp.

atb Paul

 

Hi,

 

No I have not updated it, the German guy wants my old copy first according to Julian when I spoke to him about updated at last years (or maybe the year before) WMGF but when I try and contact him I get no response at all. Just dont want to loose my copy. I suppose as I have changed address since I bought it things may have gone astray but I did advise him at the time.

 

My copy is on a floppy disc, I will have a look at the links you have posted. I want to get my 20BR onto the system.

 

A

[Andrew]

I have built several 25 Krag IMP rifles for P-14 and Single Shot actions. It is a fine cartridge but well into the 25-06 performance and pressure levels. The Standard 25 Krag is one of my favorite (ancient) wildcats. Frankly, I'd just neck down the 7x57R cases and make a rimmed 257 Roberts and load it to original (not the "+P") levels. If you improve it you're going to have wasted space if pressure is an issue.~Andrew

[casts_by_fly]

Rick, did you take into account blowing the shoulder forward? I just think you will have better availability of brass. I'll look up the .25 souper rimmed. I couldn't find it when googled earlier.

 

Dave

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

You probably won't find a 25 souper rimmed. The 25 souper will have info though, so the rimmed version would be substituting 307 brass and necking down. The souper and the 250 Savage AI would be more or less the same cartridge. With 100 gr bullets it looks like they are pushing hard to hit 3100.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[casts_by_fly]

Rick, did you take into account blowing the shoulder forward? I just think you will have better availability of brass. I'll look up the .25 souper rimmed. I couldn't find it when googled earlier.

 

Dave

 

 

I have built several 25 Krag IMP rifles for P-14 and Single Shot actions. It is a fine cartridge but well into the 25-06 performance and pressure levels. The Standard 25 Krag is one of my favorite (ancient) wildcats. Frankly, I'd just neck down the 7x57R cases and make a rimmed 257 Roberts and load it to original (not the "+P") levels. If you improve it you're going to have wasted space if pressure is an issue.~Andrew

 

 

Hi andrew,

 

Pressure isn't a problem. I'm on an encore frame, so with a standard casehead it can do 55-60K PSI. To do the bob, I'd go improved and load to +P levels. I'd probably need a 24" barrel, maybe 26", to get the performance out of it, but that is an option. I think that is the most likely route because dies and readily available for the bob improved and the chamber reamers are common (MGM has one). I'd have to get 7x57R brass, but I think that wouldn't be too bad.

 

I looked at the others mentioned above, but it doesn't look like brass is common by any stretch for any of them. Even the 9.3x74 I was talking about isn't common or cheap.

 

I think there is a typo in your post, but want to confirm. Are you saying that the 25 Krag improved is getting you INTO 25-06 range? What kind of speed are you getting from your loads? I had a look at the 30-30 and 30-40 cases but it didn't look like there was enough capacity. I also was looking at the 303 Brit, but it seems guys have done it in Aus (necked down to 25) and it doesn't quite get there either.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Vermincinerator]

Rick i have a Borden actioned 257 Roberts Improved or "betterbob" as some like to call it and i can honestly say its the best cartridge i have had the pleasure to work with and shoot.

I load 85 grain Nosler BTs (varmint) @ 3350fps which although print 1/2 moa 5 shot groups @ 200yds are not as accurate as the 100grn version (hunting) or for that matter 100grn SMKs.

I load both these to just over 3100fps.

Forming the cases from 7x57 is a pain in the @rse, the dimensional difference in necking down from 7mm to 257 is so little that the false shoulder created is not enough to stop the case being driven forward into the chamber neck by the firing pin upon ignition.

This causes the brass fireform backwards and flow in the case head web area, not good.

The above problem can be overcome but its a bit of a hit and miss affair.

By positioning the false shoulder further forward then specified to create a very tight crush fit, better fireforming can be accomplished but not as good as with parent brass.

Although the quality of the 257 Roberts brass leaves a lot to be desired it is adequate and if you are prepared to put in the time and effort to turn a pigs ear into a purse, they make very good improved cases and fireform perfectly.

 

Ian.

[Andrew]

Hi andrew,

 

I think there is a typo in your post, but want to confirm. Are you saying that the 25 Krag improved is getting you INTO 25-06 range? What kind of speed are you getting from your loads? I had a look at the 30-30 and 30-40 cases but it didn't look like there was enough capacity. I also was looking at the 303 Brit, but it seems guys have done it in Aus (necked down to 25) and it doesn't quite get there either.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

Rick,

I shoot the standard 25 Krag but the folks I was building the Krag IMP rifles for were tossing 87 grain bullets into the 3200 fps range. The Krag case has a larger capacity than you'd think, and the reamer I have moves the shoulder forward about .100" while blowing the case out straight walled. I haven't built a Krag IMP in 20 years; back when de-milled Pattern 14's were hitting the country at $29 each. The reason that my customers (and the NRA Technical staff back in the 60's who gave me the idea) can get 25-06 performance is that the 25-06 over bore to begin with. It's possible to reduce the case capacity and still get the performance with proper powders. Take a hard look at the 257 Roberts velocities and the powder quantities it uses to get there, along side of the pressures it generates. Then compare to the 25-06 along the same lines. It's not hard to envision getting there with a smaller case. Now, nobody had these IMP loads tested for pressure but these were savvy reloaders whose word I'd trust.

 

That aside, one option for you might be necking a 7.62x54R down to 25 caliber. Lapua makes match brass and the case capacity is about .1cc larger than the 30-40, and .16 larger than the 308.~Andrew