45-70 marlin underlever

[cloverleaf]

45-70 govt for target shooting use in this country and a driven boar gun abroad? friend in germany uses one with success and was considering investing for use in europe, any one use the round or have any thoughts?

[Ronin]

Had about 30 shots with a Rossi 45/70 UL last year, it was fitted with a "holo" sight and I thought at the time what an excellent woodlands stalking gun it would make (especially with the 500g lead solids it was shooting)

 

 

Appeared to be quite accurate out to 150 mtrs, was able to connect or be very close to the 4 inch target from standing easily at this distance.

 

 

Dont think I would replace my 25-06 with one though.

[Vermincinerator]

The 45-70 is a very capable cartridge, i have fired about 800rnds in the past mainly through two Sharps replicas i owned but also through a Ruger No1.

In the Sharps, loads were limited to 29,000psi due to the construction but using a 405grn lead bullet at about 1100fps it would print 1 1/2" ten shot groups @ 100yds

Dont forget loads at these velocities powered by black powder were responsible for the destruction of the majority of North American Bison in the 1870s

 

Loaded for the far stronger Ruger its a different animal, bordering on low end 458 Win Mag ballistics with velocities around the 2000fps with 400grn JHPs, thats enough to flatten any wild boar where it stands.

I do beleive that the modern marlin lever action is able to withstand these high pressure loads but i would check first to make sure, most re-loading manuals publish 45-70 data for low and high pressure firearms and list suitable rifles for each catagory.

 

Ian.

[flytie]

I believe the 45-70 was once used by the military in the US od A, and as such could not be used in France, as they do not allow the public to use any calibre if it has been used by any military forces worldwide. So choose your location for pigs accordingly.

 

People keep asking me to go to Croatia with them, as they are so impressed with the value of the Boar shooting there.

 

I have a mate who has one and he loves it to bits, in both black powder and nitro. There are a few who use them at the Greensleeves Club at Stoke Orchard. Having seen it at work i can honestly say it really does stop piggies

 

ft

[casts_by_fly]

I believe the 45-70 was once used by the military in the US od A, and as such could not be used in France, as they do not allow the public to use any calibre if it has been used by any military forces worldwide. So choose your location for pigs accordingly.

 

People keep asking me to go to Croatia with them, as they are so impressed with the value of the Boar shooting there.

 

I have a mate who has one and he loves it to bits, in both black powder and nitro. There are a few who use them at the Greensleeves Club at Stoke Orchard. Having seen it at work i can honestly say it really does stop piggies

 

ft

 

 

When I get back to the US, the 45-70 in on my list of cartriges I'd like to try. With handloads, it looks very versatile as you can upload it to HOLY CRAP proportions that will stop a truck, but then download it with 250-300 gr bullets at moderate speeds for deer. The 375 H&H is another on my wish list. No real point for me to have one here, but at home they will be good for deer, bear, and boar.

 

If I remember correctly, a 45-70 was a record holder at Sandy Point (US army I think) for long range for a long while. That big heavy bullet is hard to slow down and even harder to blow away.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[baldie]

There are three load levels for this cartridge, level 3 is for the old sharps, pedersoli,s etc, and what i used to shoot myself in this calibre. These loads are not great with nitro, and are much more accurate with black powder.

Level 2 loads are what the marlin leverguns use, and are pretty pokey in them.I sold our last one, a 24" cowboy, only last week in this calibre.

Level 1 loads are what modern bolt actions, and also ruger number 1,s can withstand, and these are "painfull" shall we say. But would sit anything on its arse.

It would be my first choice, a marlin, in either 45/70 or .444 for driven boar.Topped off with a nice zeiss flashdot.......mmmmmm.

 

Ian, we have on the wall, a beautiful Shiloh sharps rifle, a chap part ex,d a while ago, he never fired it ! its 12 years old, and unfired ! Its a 45/100, with set triggers, and the tang rearsight, wood to die for, and basically the equivalent of a best english shotgun. I believe shiloh make around 40 a year, and there is a 2 year waiting list. I was going to have it myself, but a gun like that needs to be run on black powder, even though its nitro proved, and frankly i cant be arsed with black powder.

A truly beautiful rifle however.

[flytie]

There are three load levels for this cartridge, level 3 is for the old sharps, pedersoli,s etc, and what i used to shoot myself in this calibre. These loads are not great with nitro, and are much more accurate with black powder.

Level 2 loads are what the marlin leverguns use, and are pretty pokey in them.I sold our last one, a 24" cowboy, only last week in this calibre.

Level 1 loads are what modern bolt actions, and also ruger number 1,s can withstand, and these are "painfull" shall we say. But would sit anything on its arse.

It would be my first choice, a marlin, in either 45/70 or .444 for driven boar.Topped off with a nice zeiss flashdot.......mmmmmm.

 

Ian, we have on the wall, a beautiful Shiloh sharps rifle, a chap part ex,d a while ago, he never fired it ! its 12 years old, and unfired ! Its a 45/100, with set triggers, and the tang rearsight, wood to die for, and basically the equivalent of a best english shotgun. I believe shiloh make around 40 a year, and there is a 2 year waiting list. I was going to have it myself, but a gun like that needs to be run on black powder, even though its nitro proved, and frankly i cant be arsed with black powder.

A truly beautiful rifle however.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/bigbore/1895.asp Yum, yum!!!!!!!!!

 

ft

[menial 1]

One of the members at Oundle club has 45-70 passed for deer in Northants. He has a Marlin stainless/laminate underlever that looks like it would make a belting woods tool.

Pete.

[Andrew]

Baldie is right: There are three loading levels for the 45-70. The modern Marlin 1895 and the Browning-built Winchester Model 86 are in that middle level. There is no way a lever gun will take the pressures of the Ruger Single Shot or the Siamese Mauser Model 98 Bolt gun.

 

I have owned 45-70's for 35 years and have loaded for Springfield Trapdoors, Marlins, and Siamese Mausers. I currently have 2 Siams, a Marlin 1895, and a Springfield Trapdoor. They are all accurate. My Siamese will toss 300 grain bullets moving at 2000+ fps into a cloverleaf at 100M. They are punishing to shoot. My favorite Siam jacketed load is a 405 grain Speer over 58 grain of IMR 4895. I have killed bison with it and it killed like the Hand of God.

 

One limiting factor with the 45-70 is the brass. Both of my Siams are exceptionally well built customs but brass deformity with the heaviest loads limits cases to about 4 loadings before they go toast. Food for thought... especially since that kind of brute power is seldom needed for game animals. After all, it punches a .45 caliber hole in anything it hits. The last deer I killed with a Siamese was a muley doe at about 70 yards. It was running up an opposing hill and the 330 grain lead HP traveling at 1600 fps hit it on the spine between the shoulders. I could stick my hand into the entrance hole it produced and the deer was dead instantly.

 

It is a hell of a cartridge no matter how it's loaded. Accurate and powerful. JMHO. ~Andrew

[cloverleaf]

Thanks everone some really helpfull advice, thinks its decided things for me. been on the hornaday website and been finding out about the lever evaloution ammo the do for them looks all good

[Andrew]

Don't be so quick to be pulled into the "Leverution" 325 grainer by Hornaday. The BC of that bullet is .200 and the BC of their much cheaper, and proven 325 grain RN is .189. Realistically speaking, you don't give up a heck of a lot; about 50 fps at 200 yards if you give both a starting speed of 2100 fps. Just food for thought. The 325 Leverutions are $40 for 50 "heads" here. I'm guessing double over there.

 

Just an FYI. Enjoy the 45-70.~Andrew

[njc110381]

I've been doing the .444, .45-70 and .450 Marlin deciding for some time now. I'm still not really set on what to buy. .45-70 would be classed as military in some countries I should think, so that has to be a serious consideration. My friend has a .444 Marlin which is nice. The bullet drop over 100 yards is much less than that of the .45-70 yet it still offers good knock down performance. I think that is what I'm going to go for. Factory ammo in .45-70 (I've heard) can be loaded a bit on the mild side for safetys sake which is bit of a downer. You can also shoot 2.5" .410 shotshells through a .444, which although it would spin the pattern out at range would make a great close up Squirrel gun!

 

I should add my friend has his .444 for Deer. It's listed in the guidelines as a suitable calibre, along with .45-70. You should be able to get it for field use here. Makes it easier to justify and also useful for woodland work.

[theshootist]

I've always fancied a Marlin guide gun in .45-70 - take a look at the new SBL, looks like the guide gun has been modified to take on some of the mods being done by customisers like Wild West Guns. Its got to be a good bet for driven boar, if you don't mind the recoil and the noise?!

 

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigbore/1895SBL.asp0

 

[MarinePMI]

A good article on the 45-70 and some load testing...

 

Bullets for heavily armored deer...

[eldon]

Having shot x2 45/70's on a range one day, my lasting memories were;

 

1/ better to shoot standing cuddling a post than lying down and snuggled up

 

2/ wow where did all that confetti (toilet paper) come from

the owner had padded the cases out to keep the powder to the primer.