budget mil dot scope

[njc110381]

I'm looking for a reasonable zoom mil dot scope to put on my Hornet. Would like at least 12x mag. I don't want to spend too much on a bunny gun but don't want anything too cheap either. What do you guys have that works ok? I have a Bushnell Elite 5-15x50 on it now but would like something that I can hold over more accurately with!

[casts_by_fly]

why not the 5-15 3200 with mil-dot ret? Same glass, same scope.

 

If you want to go cheaper, I have the Tasco 2.5-10 with a mil-dot on my 22LR and I like it. Glass is good, clicks were dead on and tracking was good in the box test. Don't know how it handles recoil as I have it on a 22LR, but the hornet won't be much more. I think they offer the same in a 4-16, but you'll have to check around.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Guest varmartin]

If you want a FFP scope with mil dots to hold over take a look at this >>>>>>>>CLICK FOR LINK

[njc110381]

That Falcon is a nice looking scope! I really like the crosshair setup on that. What's the deal with the first focal plane reticule? Is that good?

[Guest varmartin]

From the net....

 

On a variable power scope, the reticle in the first focal plane increases or decreases with the power setting so the reticle appears the same size on the target. In the second focal plane the reticle stays the same size as the image increases or decreases in size with the power setting, so the reticle covers more area on low power, and less area on a higher power. What are the advantages and disadvantages of the reticle being in the 1st or 2nd focal plane? and why aren't there more scopes made with the reticle in the first focal plane?

 

Answer

 

Europeans prefer first plane scopes because they legally and normally hunt a lot later than we do here, and larger reticles are easier to see on a target. First plane scopes also cannot change point of impact when changing magnification because the reticle does not move. The focus for the reticle and the parallax adjustment are such that when you change the parallax setting on a first plane scope you will sometimes lose sharp focus of your reticle. Therefore, most European scopes have a fast-focus eyepiece. This is for the reticle and nothing else. Most European scopes are also built on 30mm tubes, many of them steel instead of aluminum. They are in general bigger and heavier than their American counterparts. First plane scopes with rangefinding type reticles may be used at any power. European glass is second to none.

 

Second plane scopes or "American" scopes are smaller and lighter and can have point of impact change when changing magnification, and many of them, especially less expensive ones certainly do. The parallax setting on second plane scopes has nothing to do with the reticle focus, so fast-focus eyepieces are a matter of convenience and pretty much a useless feature. Set it once properly at high power and leave it forever. Second plane scopes also have a smaller appearing reticle on the target at high power than low power, which is extremely important for precise shot placement. Second plane scopes with rangefinding type reticles are designed to be used at one power only. BDC reticles are not excluded from this. Traditionally, second plane scopes are one inch, but 30mm tubes are gaining popularity rapidly. Most people think that the larger tube offers a brighter image, but this is not true, although it may in some cases offer better resolution. Steel scopes are a thing of the past .

[njc110381]

 

Right. First off thanks for that long answer. I'm still not entirely sure what to make of it but I have much more idea than I did! From what I can make of that the scope will be more accurate and reliable (cheap scopes with 2nd focal plane reticules can shift zero with mag settings?). Bad point being the reticule will be very big on the target at long range? Seeing as it's going on a Hornet that shouldn't matter too much, as long as I can see a Bunnies head without it being hidden by the crosshair at 250 yards?

 

How big is the reticule likely to be if say I want to shoot a 2p coin at 200 yards? Would I be able to see what I'm shooting at or will it be hidden by the crosshair?

 

I guess a scope like this would be useless on a really long range gun as small targets will be completely hidden by the reticule?

 

Sorry for all the questions but I'm still a little confused (or retarded, you decide!).

[Guest varmartin]

Short Answer this time.......

 

Get the same scope in 2nd FP and dial it .

 

[njc110381]

I've just read the first answer again and you say that SFP scopes should only be used at one power when range finding? So that means that if at 5x power the bullet will drop say one dot at 200, at 10x it will not be the same? Don't much like the sound of that, or this dialling lark either to be honest!

 

Dialling is for long range melon splatting. The Rabbits on my permission will have legged it by the time I've finished messing about with all that lark

[Guest varmartin]

Do you want to take them out at long range or not ?

 

If not, dont waist money on a new scope as even a 3-9x40 will work well enough !

 

Keep the Bushnell elite you have.

 

I dont know ...you lost me !

[Guest varmartin]

I've just read the first answer again and you say that SFP scopes should only be used at one power when range finding? So that means that if at 5x power the bullet will drop say one dot at 200, at 10x it will not be the same? Don't much like the sound of that, or this dialling lark either to be honest!

 

Dialling is for long range melon splatting. The Rabbits on my permission will have legged it by the time I've finished messing about with all that lark

 

 

So you dont want to range find with a mil dot ret ( me either ) and you dont like this dialing lark ?

 

The only thing left is good old Kentucky windage and range guestimation

[casts_by_fly]

guys,

 

let's step back a second and think about this. NJC wants a scope for on a hornet for shooting rabbits at less than 300 yards. With a 40 gr v-max at 2900 fps, you can sight in 1" high at 100 and only be 2" low at 200. At that rate you don't even hit the first mil-dot until 275 yards. To me personally, it seems like a waste to put a mil-dot scope on said rifle. That is pushing the range for a hornet anyway. You'll not use anything more than the crosshair and the first dot.

 

I'd think that a better option would be to stick with the current scope and get a set of knobs made up for £30. Then you range the rabbit (or estimate) and turn the knob to the nearest setting. If you're out by 25 yards you'll still be close enough out to 250 or so. Anything beyond that and they will stick around plenty long enough to dial in precisely.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[njc110381]

I thought the drop would be more than that! Maybe I don't need one after all then? I haven't really shot my Hornet in the field much yet, mainly due to my crimp die not turning up. The only ammo it seems to like is S&B which is really slow and bounces around like a kangaroo on speed!

 

I was thinking the drop would be down several dots at 250ish yards? I've ever used a mil dot scope before so I guess they're not what I expect them to be?

 

My mate has a mil dot on his .22lr. He's printed a little chart of his crosshair with little line markers showing where the bullet will impact at various ranges. All he has to do is rangefind the target and then cross ref with his little chart which is stuck on the inside face of his butler creek cover, he doesn't miss a lot even at HMR ranges!

 

I'll get out and shoot the rifle a bit before I decide. It sounds like I may be after something that may not even help me a lot!

[casts_by_fly]

if you do some quick balistics calcs on jbm, you can check out your drops. The hornet will put out a 40 gr v-max or nbt around 2900 or so. At the bottom of the page you can choose your units for measurement. I like using inches and either clicks or mils for the second column (mils being useful if you have a mil-dot scope, clicks if you're dialing in). A 40gr vmax at 2900, zero'd 1" high at 100 (about a 150 yard zero) will have you 2.5" low at 200 yards. When you hit 275 you'll be dropping about 10.5", which is 1 mil for that range. Around 355 you'd hit a second mil, and 410 would put you on a third. However, how many times are you going to shoot a hornet past 300?

 

Thanks,

Rick

[JC275]

Head shooting rabbits at 250 yards with a .22 Hornet? Stand by for a lot of dissapointment whatever the 'scope! Hope you've got lots of ammo and lots of rabbits JC

[menial 1]

Not having a go, but I'd recommend a change to your rifle rather than your scope for headshooting rabbits at 250yds, the hornet will still have enough retained energy to get the job done but a .20 or .222, 223 or 22-250 would make it a whole lot easier to achieve. I've killed a lot of stuff with a hornet but would think you'll struggle after 200yds, especially if there's a bit of wind on.

Pete.

[njc110381]

I'm sure the rifle will be fine. I've just got rid of a .223 because I found it far too loud and harsh for Rabbits! The Hornet can be an accurate rifle, but I do accept that it doesn't have the power to buck the wind as the bigger guns do. If it can't head shoot Rabbits at 250 then that's fine, I'll just aim for a bigger part when they're a long way off.

 

I chose the Hornet as a replacement for my HMR. I have little experience with the round so far so I don't really know what it can do. None of my permissions really allow for extended range shots anyway, I just wanted more power so I can shoot Fox further out when the chance presents itself.

 

Really I've just assumed it will work to longer ranges than the HMR. I head shot a bunny at 180 paces with my HMR the other day, so I expect the Hornet to be at least as good as that. Plenty of guys get .5 MOA with a good Hornet rifle and load, so surely 250 yards should be ok in still conditions?

[JC275]

Now, if you start to look on the .22 Hornet as a replacement for a .17 HMR and then some, you are going to be very pleased, if you look at it as a replacement for a .223 Rem you may not be so impressed! Its all about manageing your expectations. I was once in a job where the estate restruant came under my responsibility, when it was called a restruant everyone complained about the food, the service, the decor, waiting times etc. I changed the sign above the door to Tea Room and everyone was happy! JC

[njc110381]

Now, if you start to look on the .22 Hornet as a replacement for a .17 HMR and then some, you are going to be very pleased, if you look at it as a replacement for a .223 Rem you may not be so impressed! JC

 

 

I'm glad you've said that because I wanted it to be more of a HMR improvement than a replacement for the .223. The .223 was very harsh for Vermin (at least on 99% of the ground I shoot). For most of my use it was just too big. The longest bunny I ever took with it was only about 150 yards away, so there was far too much powder wastage with that cartridge. What prompted me to get a Hornet was it's ability to take a Fox a little further out than the HMR can, which was actually the plan for the .223 when I bought it. The trouble was I bought a heavy .223 which was hard to carry around, and it also totally destroyed the Rabbits I hit (there's one 25 yard shot that I will never forget). I wanted something I could load myself and use instead of the HMR for every day bunny and Fox bashing, so it had to be cheap to load. I thought the .223 would suit, but it turned out to be far too powerful to use regularly so I changed it for the Hornet.

 

As you can see in my signature, there's a .300WM on the way and I already have a 6.5x55. Both are more than capable of stuffing a .223 on the performance tables if I need more range/accuracy. If the Hornet doesn't have the power for any extended range bunnies I'll use my .300 (which I intend to set up as a long range plinker). That'll certainly learn 'em

 

Most of my shooting is fine with the HMR but I sometimes see a Fox that I have to leave. I took a few shots at them early on which resulted in runners. I don't like to admit it but I also like to be honest so others can learn from my mistakes rather than make their own. Most of my shots are inside 150 yards at Rabbits but a 150 yard Fox with a HMR just doesn't work. I needed something that can manage both at that range.