nuttyspaniel Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Im just back in from a session with bambi-basher. We were going to zero my new 222 check the zero on the 243 then try for a buck! Now when we zeroed the 222 at 50yds we were keyholing shots at 1" high! But when we went out to 100 the 1st shot hit high left then the next 1 but the 3rd went high right!! I passed the rifle over to B-B his 1st shot went high left then his next high right!!! After several atempts from both of us we had 2 groups on the target 1 group high left and another high right both groups almost identical on height!! The ammo was all from the same batch! The rifle well its in mint condition and to be honest lucky to have seen 60 rounds through it, of which 40 are from myself! Ive checked the mounts and scope and they are solid no movement in them. The scope is a Tasco varminter which tracked very very good at 50 yds and is split new!! Im at a loss to the problem does anybody have any insight what the possible cause could have been?? Is it possible it was the ammo, prvi partizan but in the 243 and my old 308 it was great!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfox Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 The reticle has probably fell out of the tasco! I had one on a 22Rf and after 6 months it fell out of place and the scope went back, bought a bushnell in its place and thats still going strong. Redfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Is the barrel clean?Either that or as you say try another ammunition brand.Were you shooting freehand or from a bench?What weight were the bullets 50GRS?Some 222 barrels with 1-14"twist can be temperamental stabilising bullets of over 55grs(especially if of spitzer type)In my 222 I can shoot from 40-63grs.But every rifle is different.-Toby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyspaniel Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Is the barrel clean? Yes! freehand or from a bench We were using a rifle bag on the stock on the bonnet of my jeep! Oh the bullets were 50grn soft points! The reticle has probably fell out of the tasco! Nope I dont think so!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Hi Nutty, ran into something like that last year. Couldn't explain it, proven cartridge, same batch. After changing scope and stock and cleaning barrel again still no improvement. Cleaning was with hoppes No. 9 brushes and all. Even two overnight soakings. I got this scrub stuff from remington, the one every one tells you not to use. Rifle was back to normal. (It was quite a new barrel 80 shot) One never knows what chemical composition is created with carbon or nitrogen , copper at these high temperatures. One creates possibly copper carbides and so on, good luck with chemical cleaners, forget it. These are ceramics. As little as possible i every now and then scrub with abbrasive mechanical cleaners. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyspaniel Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Ive just checked the spent cases and noticed that some have a different shape around the where the pin would strike, and the primers less flattened against the bolt face! Surely this is due to different pressures and if so I think that is the problem!! I think some hand loads are the order of the day to rule this problem out!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rogern Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Nutty, after checking the scope, mounts, action screws & freefloat, the very next thing would be give the barrel a good scrubbing, buy a new box of ammo, not privi, some other good brand. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyspaniel Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 the very next thing would be give the barrel a good scrubbing It was a clean barrel we started with, and it fired less than 20 rounds before we moved the target out to 100yds. It didnt spray the bullets about the 2 groups were reasonable with some shots key holed!! buy a new box of ammo, not privi, some other good brand. Thats why the loading for the rifle is going to commence. But prey tell me folks whats the worse case scenario! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 What rifle? twist? The keyholing aint good. I'd put those cartridges asside. You said you shot the 222 before, how was the grouping then? same ammo? If the bedding is good on the rifle and is well free floating, scope ok, borrow wifes credit card and buy a box of every 222 ammo you can get your hands on. My 223 shoots some factory ammo over 2", others under half inch, consistently. My rifle has never liked 55gr umc, i always use it to foul the barrel. After a lot of tweaking on the rifle, and two years later she still groups no better than 2" with 55gr umc. With 45gr HP umc she was always under 1". Handloading is best, but if you find a factory round that works why not. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyspaniel Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 What rifle? twist? tikka 590 1in14 twist The keyholing aint good.I'd put those cartridges asside. I meant 2 shots in the same hole You said you shot the 222 before, howwas the grouping then? same ammo? same ammo different scope. I didnt actually try and zero it properly at any decent range but it shot 3 shot groups about an 1"!! My 223 shoots some factory ammo over 2",others under half inch, consistently. The groups werent really the issue but 2 seperate groups from the same zero!! Thats the head sratching bit! Im soaking the rifle with forrest bore foam as we speak. I will add the rifle is in a very good sound condition!! Although the model is perhaps an older model it hasnt seen any work at all!! It is MINT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Optics certainly won't cause keyholing. You have a stabilization problem or a really bad barrel. Have you chronographed the Partizan loads? That might answer your questions at some point. Until then, hand load some 40 or 50 grain bullets and see what happens. You shouldn't have to work too hard to get a .222 to group well. Good luck! ~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest varmartin Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Andrew...I think nutty meant two shots in the same hole ( key-holing ) not unstabilized bullets going thru sideways !! It could be possible that the action is moving in the stock under recoil...check and re-torque the stock screws. It may help. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyspaniel Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 OK an update Ive soaked the barrel with forrest bore foam and no blue I gave it an hour! I then moped the barrel out replugged it and filled it with hoppes "9" and left it an hour, still no blue!! I ve since mopped then used meths to clean out any cleaning residue. Ive noticed that 6 or so fired shells have shall I say different primer "mark" ie not as flattened as the rest, so checked the un-fired rounds and there are a few (2 or 3) which looks like different primers have been used!! Now back to the 50yd zero! There is a group of 3 less than 1/2" nearer 1/4"!! But hear is the punch line I didnt encounter any real probs until the last box was cracked open and thats where the "primer" difference was found!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Sorry misunderstood the keyholing, I had same two groupings in the past, the first time i had a decent scope, Leupold 3-9x50 VXIIc. Lense was loose inside. Had it fixed perfect. Maybe try a proven scope, just for the heck of it. Possibly sort the privi's by seating depth. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyspaniel Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 It could be possible that the action is moving in the stock under recoil...check and re-torque the stock screws. It may help. Done that and all was tight as a ducks butt in water mate cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyspaniel Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Possibly sort the privi's by seating depth. Oh I meant to say these rounds are really large ice cream short about 200's shorter than sami!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rogern Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 I'd f*** that privi into the loch nutty and, if you are going to use a lot of rounds, make some home rolled, you'll always beat factory ammo if you do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulB Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 I'd f*** that privi into the loch nutty and, if you are going to use a lot of rounds, make some home rolled, you'll always beat factory ammo if you do it properly. Supposed to be good brass on the privi, so hold onto it for the home loads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyspaniel Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Supposed to be good brass on the privi, so hold onto it for the home loads! Thats why I bought it! It was a good round in the 243 but it does make better homeloads!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Nutty, Any chance of you posting a pic of the rifle....one from the side to get an idea how tall the scope ring mounts and one from the rear to get an idea of the cheek contact are of the stock? I am thinking the souce of the problem isnt ammo....its eye-scope alignment and/or cheek/stock contact.... 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyspaniel Posted July 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 panther I dont have a digi camera but the 42mm obj is only about 2mm from the barrel! But the eye piece is a little to far for my liking and I do have to push my cheek down and closer than Im normally used to. This is due to the bell clearing the barrel. I am using hillver mounts and a hillver 1 piece base, I think the mounts are low! Now there's another thoguht cheers Ill check that tomorrow night and let you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambi-basher Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Hi Panther Are you thinking parallax error? The scope is parallax adjustable and was adjusted right at both rangers. B-b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 What a great forum this is!You only posted today and already have 20 plus posts of helpful advice,keep it up lads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 You could call it a paralax error of sorts.... The scope may be adj for the yardage... But Head postioning ....or differant head positioning will change anything the paralax adj tries to correct. Nutty previously said it feels low...(Ring Mounts) and the eye relief too far forward... If that is how it feels....Then I would say thats the problem. He said he has to put his cheek into it more than what he did... I would try a taller set of rings and see if this feels more natural... 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 308Panther Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Another thought....Canting?? 308Panther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.