Alycidon Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 How about this for a hot .22, http://www.gsgroup.co.za/22x64.html Also note the comments on 22.250 barrel life at high velocity, someone here said that Kal was selling these barrels. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I once owned a .22-06 built on a 1917 Remington Enfield with a 26" heavy barrel that was a smokingly fast round. I'm sure it is a very similar round. I necked down and fire formed 25-06 cases and loaded with H-4831 powder. I don't have the data any more but I seem to remember flattening primers around 53 or 54 grains weight. This was back in the day when a chronograph required a small utility truck to haul to the range and I didn't have access to one, consequently I never knew what speeds I was getting with 55 grain FMJ I was using. (But in retrospect, I'm sure it was over 4000 fps. It did shoot flatter than my 220 Ackley Swift based on 100 to 200 yard drop comparisons.) I never shot any game with it, either, as I got bored with the fast and flat .22's and started playing with the 6.5's. I had it about 3 months and the best groups I got with it were with Hornady 55 grain FMJ's and they averaged about .8 MOA. I recall the barrel got really hot after a few rounds in the New Mexico summer desert heat!~Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I once owned a .22-06 built on a 1917 Remington Enfield with a 26" heavy barrel that was a smokingly fast round. I'm sure it is a very similar round. I necked down and fire formed 25-06 cases and loaded with H-4831 powder. I don't have the data any more but I seem to remember flattening primers around 53 or 54 grains weight. This was back in the day when a chronograph required a small utility truck to haul to the range and I didn't have access to one, consequently I never knew what speeds I was getting with 55 grain FMJ I was using. (But in retrospect, I'm sure it was over 4000 fps. It did shoot flatter than my 220 Ackley Swift based on 100 to 200 yard drop comparisons.) I never shot any game with it, either, as I got bored with the fast and flat .22's and started playing with the 6.5's. I had it about 3 months and the best groups I got with it were with Hornady 55 grain FMJ's and they averaged about .8 MOA. I recall the barrel got really hot after a few rounds in the New Mexico summer desert heat!~Andrew The guy building my 20BR built himself a .22 using a 7mm Rem case in the early 1960s, downloaded that moves a 55gr at 4000 fps, he still uses it as a long distance fox rifle. It is very heavy, definatly a truck rifle only. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfox Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 If you think of the swifts reputation as a barrel burner, this is going to take that to a new level! A fast but short life springs to mind, particularly when you take into account that you can get 3700-3800 fps out of a 22-250 with a 55gr bullet anywayand using nearly half the powder. As Andrew points out, burning ever more powder behind a small bore/bullet just creates fast fouling for ever diminishing gains. Nice to dream though. Redfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Place a different slant on this, why not use the parent case - be that 68mm, 06 or RM and neck down to .224" Then use heavy for calibre bullets (75g - 90g) and see how it goes, would be the ballistic equal of some of the heavt 6.5mm and 7mm bullets - for a short time anyway. Maybe push to 3300fps only and the barrel would last longer...... Interesting to do though, even if its been done before with lighter bullets, the newer heavyweights have their place in 22's I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfox Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Trouble is then your competing with the 6mmbr which does it all better particularly with the heavier bullets and less powder and better accuracy. The basic thing with all these hot wildcats, is that if it takes 3lbs of powder to wash out the neck of your barrel, the more powder in each case for a given cal, the sooner its gone, the swift is a case in point in that if you use the hottest loads the barrel can be done in less than 800 rounds, in fact I have seen where a distinct loss of accuracy has occurred in 500 rounds. Barrels are consumables, but in a varminting type rifle 2-3000 rds is a much more sensible sort of life, in fact Sako used to guarantee 10,000 rds before significant loss of accuracy in all the std cals they make, my 243 did better than that it just got harder to clean eventually but was still well under an inch at 100yds. I think the 6-6.5 x 47 and even 284 would be a much more sensible path, or the 6mm br and 22 and 6mm ppc if you want the smaller cals. Like any development it is interesting and its good people are still experimenting, but real advantages will come from elsewhere than big cases with little bullets. I have seen the results of experiments with med cals which were taken up to around 7000fps with various alterations to the rifles and ammo, but it then brought other issues to the fore, like bullet material and accuracy affected by air density, pollution etc etc, no free lunches yet sadly. Redfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 At the end of the day you have to ask what the point is in seeking higher velocity in these days of the laser rangefinders, windmeters, ballistic programmes and dialable turrets. As someone said on the 20 cal thread you just have to put a few more clicks in. As we know its accurcay that kills not velocity and BR/PPC based rounds that only burn about 30 grains a bang and are just as effective at normal ranges. What was interesting was the wound effect on animals the size of our deer, looks like those light bullets held together well and the test targets posted suggest acceptable accuracy. I dont know if Barnes Varmint grenades are from the same stable, they look similar from memory, the accuracy reports I read about them were generally not that good. Peters 22/4000 (thats what he called it) has a barrell life of about 800 rounds, but he worked building rifles for a major London best builder so Douglas best unchambered barrels were pretty cheap. Bearing in mind almost every bullet goes at Charlie or a long crow that makes a few years worth. He also uses 22.250 and 22K Hornet for closer stuff . A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 There is only one problem with GS Bullets, thats the UK importer Sloane International, dont reply / respond to requests from their customers. I have spoken to them three, maybe four times at length asking for them to get me some 292g SP bullets for the 338 and some 150g HP bullets for the 7mm. I have yet to recieve a response to calls made nearly 12 months ago. If anyone is considering purchasing this bullet, it may be an idea to order from the European distributor or even direct from South Africa??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Alicydon forgot to add in my reply that its BC and accuracy that matters in long range, not highest velocity. Ive been running heavy for calibre 75g A Max's in a 22-250Ai for well over 6 maybe 7 years now and the barrel is far from burnt out, run at reasonable velocities, it still outsretches standard hot 22-250's in both range and wind drift - thats all that matters to me with this calibre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigun Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 its BC and accuracy that matters in long range, not highest velocity ?..very true but dont you just love that little bit more fps and that flatter flying bullet ,plus the harder hitting bullet ,plus the sound of that bullet on impact ..its a bit like a slow car over a fast one they both get there in the end but you would rather have the fast one even if it does cost that little bit more ..at the end of the day its down to the owner if thats what he wants and hes happy why not i say ..as long as the accuracy is still there go for it ..i would rather have 1,000 shots and enjoy every one of them, than to just whish i had that little bit more and not enjoy my shooting ..if your not happy with you rifle in any way fix so you are ..its your gun and only you are going to shoot it so why not ..i know i have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 its BC and accuracy that matters in long range, not highest velocity ?..very true but dont you just love that little bit more fps and that flatter flying bullet ,plus the harder hitting bullet ,plus the sound of that bullet on impact ..its a bit like a slow car over a fast one they both get there in the end but you would rather have the fast one even if it does cost that little bit more ..at the end of the day its down to the owner if thats what he wants and hes happy why not i say ..as long as the accuracy is still there go for it ..i would rather have 1,000 shots and enjoy every one of them, than to just whish i had that little bit more and not enjoy my shooting ..if your not happy with you rifle in any way fix so you are ..its your gun and only you are going to shoot it so why not ..i know i have Funny you should talk about speed, my usual rifle shoots at just under 3400, a few weeks ago I had a go with a 270 loaded with big pills, maybe 2700. I thought I had missed the target untill it arrived where I was aiming, odd that you can tell the difference. you not not have thought we would have time but it was over 300 yards. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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