Powder scales

[Nick 53]

Good morning, currently have Hornady lock and load digital scales electrical. Now over the week they have thrown more "over " charges I've lost count. I've emailed the importers and awaiting a reply. I've tried to calibrate them but they just won't calibrate. 

What other preferences of weighing is suitable. Finally I do have Hornady balance beam scales. 

Do I need anything else? 

Thanks nick 

[Captain mf]

I also get problems with my Lyman gen 6, load vary +0.1 / -0.15 according to powder type (flanks - granular) My solution is to set it up to be just under and then transfer to trickle it up to load on another set of scales. 
been using a myweight scales reading down to 0.01 gn but getting fed up with having to perform long warm up times and recalibration due variations in temperature changes or drafts.  When it works well it’s great, when it doesn’t it’s crap.
it boils down to the fact that Electronic scales are affected by the ambient conditions and more likely to go wrong.

Thinking about a tuned beam scale.

[Nick 53]

Hi I've found they are prone to thrown off charges on fine powder. They are OK with powder such as viht 165 or RS52. I had made a drought proof cubicle and to leave them on to self regulate when plugged in. The recommended time is 15mins. 

[Catch-22]

There’s a lot of discussion about auto throwers.

IMO none of them are very accurate if you’re using it to throw a charge and dump it in a case. Fine for hunting perhaps, not target shooting. But simply changing how you use it, they can actually be very accurate and repeatable.

When I had an RCBS Chargemaster Lite, I ran some thorough tests using N140, Varget and Lovex SO70 (similar to Accurate and Hodgdon 4350) and got some surprisingly good results.

I found that by a imply throwing a charge it was usually somewhere around a 0.1gn to 0.2gn out. 
BUT....by under throwing a charge, then removing and replacing the pan (this bit is CRUCIAL) and then manually trickling up the to the desired charge, the CM Lite would accurately measure to within 0.02gn...and with N140 is was better...essentially perfect.

My conclusion was that the scale was accurate, it was the thrower that was sub-par (or rather to be expected for a mass produced unit). But with a slight change in how it’s used, it was very very good. And it was far better and quicker than using either a beam scale or GemPro (excellent kit...just slow to use).

In the end, funds permitted me to upgrade to an A&D FX-120i with Autothrow and Autotricker combo. Seriously good, like to within a Kernel in 10 seconds good, but seriously expensive. But for me the time and hassle I now save from not having to trickle up, outweighs the cost of the Autothrow.

However, if you’re sticking with one of the commercial electronic scales, just modify the procedure (key is remove pan, replace and trickle up), I’m confident you’ll get much better results.

HTH

[No i deer]

Hi catch..

Have you seen the new RCBS matchmaster digital powder dispenser.. check it out on youtube.

The A&D and auto trickler is good but its a bit of a contraption.

The new rangemaster is a nice unit and can throw charges that will match the A&D auto trickler but a little slower..

A few seconds means nothing to me...

Repeatability does....

[Catch-22]

1 hour ago, No i deer said:

Hi catch..

Have you seen the new RCBS matchmaster digital powder dispenser.. check it out on youtube.

The A&D and auto trickler is good but its a bit of a contraption.

The new rangemaster is a nice unit and can throw charges that will match the A&D auto trickler but a little slower..

A few seconds means nothing to me...

Repeatability does....

I have...it’ll be interesting to see if someone actually does a proper test with it by validating thrown charges on a separate & known dependable scale. Believing what the display tells you isn’t good enough unfortunately.

But the current MRSP in the US shows it’s not cheap, at around $850. So when it hits the UK, it’s likely to be almost the same $ to £ ratio. If that’s the case, that’s A&D with Autothrow & Autotrickler money...and I know which I’d rather have.

[One on top of two]

Personally I use a Sartorius ENTRIS 64-1S with V3 ,  but would be very happy to have the A+D over the RCBS , the price point for the RCBS is a bit of a joke in my opinion, compared to other units . I have a chargemaster lite and have to say it’s i great little unit. It’s superb throwing powder for my pistol calibres . 
 

[No i deer]

On the videos other scales were used to validate the weights but it was suggested that the same check weights were used on both units and testing shown the matchmaster was accurate down to less than one kernal

[Catch-22]

3 hours ago, No i deer said:

On the videos other scales were used to validate the weights but it was suggested that the same check weights were used on both units and testing shown the matchmaster was accurate down to less than one kernal

The vid I’ve seen is the ‘Ultimate Reloader’ one.

Weighing a charge on another scale isn’t what I mean. My testing on the CM Lite showed the load cell was capable of weighing accurately and repeatedly to within 0.02gn - no different with this Matchmaster.

But what he didn’t show was throwing a new charge into an empty pan, record what weight the load cell said, THEN check this thrown weight on a different scale.

Two VERY different things.

Personally I think he didn’t want to show the unit automatically throw a charge, then compare what the LCD said the weight is on the A&D, because I bet they wouldn’t match. The way he fudged the test simply looked at the accuracy of load cell, not Accuracy of throwing and load cell combined. His channel is after all sponsored by RCBS...so why would he run a thorough test that could show RCBS up?

And again, at the same price point of the A&D setup, I’d much rather the A&D because it throws and weighs a perfect charge in 10 seconds or less, compared to the 20-30 seconds for the MM. so why for the same price would you buy a slower and likely, less precise unit?

Edited November 30, 2019 by Catch-22
Added extra clarity to my waffle like rant

[One on top of two]

1 minute ago, Catch-22 said:

The vid I’ve seen is the ‘Ultimate Reloader’ one.

Weighing a charge on another scale isn’t what I mean. My testing on the CM Lite showed the load cell was capable of weighing accurately and repeatedly to within 0.02gn - no different with this Matchmaster.

But he didn’t throw a charge, record what weight the load cell said, THEN validate the thrown weight on a different scale. Two VERY different things.

Personally I think he didn’t want to show the unit automatically throw a charge, then compare what the LCD said the weight is and then compare it on the A&D because I bet they wouldn’t match. The way he fudged the test simply looked at the accuracy of load cell, not Accuracy of throwing and load cell combined.

And again, at the same price point of the A&D setup, I’d much rather the A&D.

Just beat me to it ,

you explained it much better than me ! 
 

I would also like to add that he Is using some of the easiest powders to meter . I would be far more impressed if it could throw odd weights ( not just 25&50 grain ) 

with a pain in the A...... powder like RS62 

I also thought the powder drain was a pain too . The charge master has better side drain imho 

[No i deer]

There is more than one video and that A&D&AT is a monstrosity and was a piece out of that Delorean from the back to the future film which also became part of the mouse trap game 😉😂. The matchmaster is a far better looking piece of technology rather than a contraption 🤪😂.

[Catch-22]

You do have a point, the A&D with Autothrow & Autotrickler combo does look a bit like a delorean. And admittedly there’s a bit of trial and error with setup when using it for the first time.

But having used mine for a while now, it’s surprisingly quick to plug and play - about 2mins to setup which I do whilst I leave it to warm up for an hour. I use the dining room table, so must setup and pack down each use, and it’s very easy. And it’s actually a lot more robust and stable than it might look. Adam MacDonald did an excellent job in manufacturing the Autothrow/trickler combo, nothing looks cheap nor amaturely put together. Plus he backs his product with a no quibble life time guarantee.

Why not buy a Matchmaker and see. Does seem convenient to use. I liked my CM Lite for the same reason.  

[John MH]

1 hour ago, No i deer said:

There is more than one video and that A&D&AT is a monstrosity and was a piece out of that Delorean from the back to the future film which also became part of the mouse trap game 😉😂. The matchmaster is a far better looking piece of technology rather than a contraption 🤪😂.

Luddite 

[No i deer]

I can't be a luddite because I'm not opposed to new technology otherwise I wouldn't prefer the matchmaster.

Maybe Adam needs somebody to design parts into a more tasteful compact unit with its precission which would make for a very nice piece of kit...