ezmobile Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 Hi all. Just wondering if anyone noticed in the last NRA journal (Autumn) that there was a small article which states that the EU are considering banning lead in ammunition. By this, can I assume they can mean the lead cores of bullets? Has anyone else spotted this as well as me, and does anyone have any thoughts on it. Seeing as how certain U.S. powders are now banned in EU countries, if this is combined with making it very difficult to get bullets - also mostly US made, it'll start to get very difficult to get, or make ammo, that would be EU compliant, do you see where I'm going with this question?? Any thoughts anybody.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 yes spotted it. Most EU nations have extensive shooting sports so there will be much resistance I'm sure. I'd worry about it when there's actual proposals being put forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 This has been in the pipeline for quite a while now. But as per usual our shooting organisations have been in denial over it , however they are just starting to sit up and pay attention ! the European Commission (EC) has instructed the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) to develop proposals for a complete ban on lead ammunition in the European Union. ECHA is expected to prepare a report on whether or not a restriction is warranted by the end of October 2020. The EC and ECHA say that further restrictions on ammunition and fishing weights are necessary because of a growing volume of evidence worldwide of the negative impacts of lead ammunition on the environment and human health. There are a number of uncertainties around this process at the moment, not least of which is the potential impact of Brexit and how the UK will respond legislatively to future directives from Europe. the worrying bit . Direct quote. “Nevertheless, the EC and ECHA have clearly signalled their intent to seek a hard line approach in support of a complete ban on the use of lead ammunition with the exception of the military” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artiglio Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 How many thousands of tonnes of lead adorn our buildings across the uk alone, most generally has rain water running across it for endless years, not sure how a lead core pretty much completely encapsulated in copper and caught in a backstop ( which on a range will be deleaded regularly and materials recycled). Does’nt mean there won’t be reports and consultations, but outcome is another thing. I don’t shoot a shotgun , but thought there were already restrictions regarding shot in various circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezmobile Posted October 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 I'm pleased to see that others have read this and have concerns. To me, it reeks of the incessant "Creep" of legislation against legitimate firearm ownership in the UK & European countries. Its much easier to slowly make it more and more difficult for people to pursue a pastime, thereby forcing them give it up one by one, than it is to have a quick outright ban - along with its resultant claims for compensation! If this were indeed the aim, it would of course have a detrimental effect on UK / EU companies, but as anyone who reloads knows(or even those that don't) a lot, if not most, consumables come from the US so the negative effects of a ban wouldn't be shouldered solely by companies on this side of the pond, but be spread globally. Not wishing to delve into politics here, but I wonder if we do indeed leave the EU at some point in the near future, will we in the UK be able to swerve around this impending EU legislation? Cheers all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 hours ago, ezmobile said: I'm pleased to see that others have read this and have concerns. To me, it reeks of the incessant "Creep" of legislation against legitimate firearm ownership in the UK & European countries. Its much easier to slowly make it more and more difficult for people to pursue a pastime, thereby forcing them give it up one by one, than it is to have a quick outright ban - along with its resultant claims for compensation! If this were indeed the aim, it would of course have a detrimental effect on UK / EU companies, but as anyone who reloads knows(or even those that don't) a lot, if not most, consumables come from the US so the negative effects of a ban wouldn't be shouldered solely by companies on this side of the pond, but be spread globally. Not wishing to delve into politics here, but I wonder if we do indeed leave the EU at some point in the near future, will we in the UK be able to swerve around this impending EU legislation? Cheers all. Can't agree (there's a surprise!), it's a primarily a drive to reduce environmental lead pollution and any negative affects on gun ownership are secondary to that, not some "creeping" legislation to further undermine legitimate gun ownership - that's conspiracy-theory thinking I feel. That said, it is likely the fallout of any lead-control legislation may affect the shooting community somewhere down the line. I feel your expectation for an Brexited UK not implementing lead controls in the future is likely to end in disappointment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 The lead shot ban on fishing weights sure stopped all them swans, hitting power lines........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximus otter Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Popsbengo said: ...any negative affects on gun ownership are secondary to that, not some "creeping" legislation to further undermine legitimate gun ownership - that's conspiracy-theory thinking I feel. “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.” Auric Goldfinger maximus otter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, maximus otter said: “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.” Auric Goldfinger maximus otter Oh dear.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Well this was my reply to a good friend who was rightly raging about the recent premature capitulation of our shooting organisations who are now PROMOTING a cessation of lead shot usage. My concern is that their non-consulted (with membership) stance immediately puts pressure on lead use in rifle bullets. My friend says he is not unduly worried about that as there are good alternatives....I disagree....see my response below...... Rich...not convinced. Hunting as you say relatively very few bullets are used so where is the EVIDENCE of harm? When we get to target shooting the bullets are captured and periodically sifted out and the lead recycled (recycled = good!) Additionally, I believe that many if not most target shooters are using high BC heavy-for-calibre bullets for ballistic advantage. Equivalent weight copper solids WILL be significantly longer and could require tighter twist rates.....major rebarreling expense. Lathe-turned copper solids might ease the BC issue in a shorter bullet BUT these are hardly going to be affordable I think. I foresee rifle shooters suffering from this non- consulted stance and I am more than a little pissed-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 It's pretty clear that lead shot will be gone in a few years. The Eley rep at the Shooting Show told me they are steaming ahead to have solutions ready for market (additional to current). The ship has sailed, the conservation & shooting associations are onboard. California has a total ban on lead bullets for hunting but they are still allowed for target shooting with no proposal to extend the ban that I can see. I would think any proposal to extend the lead ban to hunting bullets on environmental terms will not necessarily affect target shooters in the UK - especially as we have a Tory gov. with not much prospect of Labour getting anywhere near power for some years to come! There's an "Early Day Motion" that's been put down however not one Tory has signed up. Unless the Gov. are going to re-equip the military I can't see a move to extend the removal of lead from target bullets (some mil ammo already has steel cores etc). Time will tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 All lead shot / ammo is banned by 2025 the euro chemicals agency has done their report. A vote by member states is just a formality. beretta and browning ( the two biggest players. ) have all ready started to make plans and there new ranges of guns for the coming few years and onwards will be inline with the new changes. This is from the reps of both companies that I was with 3 weeks ago. it’s no biggie this was always going to happen the uk just chose not to listen . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, One on top of two said: All lead shot / ammo is banned by 2025 the euro chemicals agency has done their report. A vote by member states is just a formality. beretta and browning ( the two biggest players. ) have all ready started to make plans and there new ranges of guns for the coming few years and onwards will be inline with the new changes. This is from the reps of both companies that I was with 3 weeks ago. it’s no biggie this was always going to happen the uk just chose not to listen . As far as I can read, no ban is as yet approved and no date set. The ECHA called for evidence in Nov 2019 so there's quite a bit of water to flow under the bridge as yet and by then we will be ex-EU members so I'm not clear as to the applicability to UK citizens. ECHA is not calling for a ban on indoor ranges or for military use (Q&A 1.9 & 1.12) and they are intending to look at derogation for 'historic' firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Popsbengo said: As far as I can read, no ban is as yet approved and no date set. The ECHA called for evidence in Nov 2019 so there's quite a bit of water to flow under the bridge as yet and by then we will be ex-EU members so I'm not clear as to the applicability to UK citizens. ECHA is not calling for a ban on indoor ranges or for military use (Q&A 1.9 & 1.12) and they are intending to look at derogation for 'historic' firearms. Watch this space 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Pardon my cynicism if I anticipate a FUBAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted March 1, 2020 Report Share Posted March 1, 2020 And so it begins , shooting orgs know they only have 5 years like I said I had been told by 2 of the top reps regarding lead ban ban 2025 . this is BASC making it sound like the uk shooting bodies are doing it by choice .. https://basc.org.uk/countryside-organisations-welcome-cartridge-manufacturers-commitment-to-the-future-of-game-shooting-in-the-uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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