PRL 2019 - What Calibre, Action/Chassis and Optic

[Soggy biscuit]

I’d like to use as many British components for my build as possible obviously the action is Remington but everything else I will try and source in this country. 

[srvet]

On 9/12/2019 at 8:59 AM, Ronin said:

Well now there are several types of Precision Rifle Shooting competition in the UK let’s hope the sport grows to become bigger and better

Diggle ranges are running their own competition series as are Gardner’s at Eskdalemuir and with next years Precision Rifle League promising to be “bigger and better” with more venues there’s a plethora of competitions to enter or attend just to practice   

 

On that note, I hope the costs to enter don't get prohibitive.

 

Talking to a fellow entrant of the last of the PRL events they said that it was over nearly 300 quid to enter the Comp and practice Friday with ammunition cost at 150 and accommodation another 150 for two nights in local place that becomes a very expensive weekends shooting when compared to even F class who’s entry fee at Bisley for two days is only 150 and a practice half day being 20 (bearing in mind that’s including paying for two human markers per target)

 

Diggle Comp entry fees stand at no more than 50 per Comp for non members (less for members) and the new set of comps at Eskdalemuir are 60 which appears good value to me

No one shooting competitively can argue it’s a cheap sport but it becomes prohibitive when entry fees are so high for unknown reasons, after all the targetry is already on site.....

 

Moving back to the original thread (sorry) I don’t see the argument against long action as the bolt retraction is exactly the same as a short action. Closing the bolt requires the longer throw (3/4” longer)

Yep, mags are larger but again 3/4” longer, so not by a huge amount.

I think the guys Precision Rifle Shooting in the US have advantage of different climate and perhaps drier conditions where fall of shot / splash can be seen with the 6mm bullets - you don’t see many 6mm used in Scandinavian events  from reading several reports it’s predominantly 6.5/7mm that is used 

Given the changeable conditions in the UK I believe 6.5 / 7mm is the better option 

 

  

 

There is the real risk of pricing out at those levels. Cash cows can only be milked for so long and ultimately the success of the sport in the UK will be the victim. If prices are more reasonable then hopefully more will attend

The send it shoot at Eskdalemuir was a much more reasonable £60 including lunch. 

i too felt my shooting was the weak link rather than equipment but I just shot a semi custom Rem 700 in 6.5x47 with 123 Scenars 

[Ronin]

£60 for a competition including lunch, looks very good value 

[Catch-22]

2 hours ago, Soggy biscuit said:

The reason I ask is I rang around a few of the big names a few months back about having my rem customised and most refuse to use sassen and had a very low opinion of them.

Very interesting. Was there a specific reason given for the low opinions? And we’re those opinions related to their buttoned or cut rifled barrels?

I’ve a number of Bartlein barrels (chambered and blanks) and they’ve always been great. 

A few months back I bought a GB cut rifled barrel (direct from them - they were brilliant to deal with) and soon to have it chambered up. The GB barrels have a very good reputation.

https://m.facebook.com/GBBarrelsLtd/?ref=page_internal&mt_nav=0

[baldie]

Sassen barrels are made from the same steel as the American barrels. It comes out of the same mill.

You will find a lot of the people with low opinions of them, are the ones that didn't pay their bills, or created like a petulant child when they couldn't have theirs "immediately"

I've used into the 1000's of both border and sassen barrels over the years, and never had a bad one.

Its bullsh1t, perpetuated by people who should know better.

AI dont use crap barrels.

[lapua]

16 hours ago, Ronin said:

£60 for a competition including lunch, looks very good value 

Lets hope the PRL venues notice this competitive pricing and follow suit. Gardners were happy to charge the higher prices when they were associated with PRL, now they have separated they have made a smart business decision and undercut the rivals, this is good for the shooters. Lets hope it continues to grow countrywide to take some of the travel costs out of it too. Attending 5 PRL shoots can easily cost between £1500 and £2500 depending on ammo choice, location and accommodation preference, thats a lot of money for some to spend on shooting, over and above what else they spend on their sport.

[Ronin]

That’s true Gary but Gardner’s charged 150 for the two day comps and we had a cooked breakfast provided both days with unlimited drinks too I recall and at lunchtime on day one there were sandwiches provided 

I appreciate this may have come out of the entry fee to find but it still made it good value, which is ironic really when one considers one of the criticisms was of profiteering (costing too much)

Now the average entry fee appears to have been raised at the other PRL events 

 

I don’t know if these comps offered breakfast and cold buffet lunch on each day as I was unable to attend due to work engagements 

 

 

 

 

[terryh]

Bit off OP but comment re venues and pricing.

It seems a pity that within 6 months of the whole PRL startup there is a falling out resulting in a direct competing offering undercutting others because the person can due to other revenue stream.

Sad really.

[Ronin]

yes, very disappointing.

[Brushy]

Agree with Terry. It’s a shame that in the first year we have politics and more comments about pricing than anything else.... considering we are a small community of shooters it would be great to see us all supporting each other and the sport.

Anyone who looks at the pictures can see everyone enjoyed themselves - that is the key. 

[terryh]

1 hour ago, Brushy said:

Agree with Terry. It’s a shame that in the first year we have politics and more comments about pricing than anything else.... considering we are a small community of shooters it would be great to see us all supporting each other and the sport.

Anyone who looks at the pictures can see everyone enjoyed themselves - that is the key. 

Mirrored what happened in the US but on an accelerated scale here 🙁

[TC]

Jeez, I can almost hear the dear departed Bradders comments to this conversation !!

I’ve shot four of the PRL matches plus two quarry shoots this year and it’s certainly been a testing experience  but i’ve learned at every event and had a great time with like minded folks.  

I’m absolutely convinced that nothing pushes skill levels more than competing and I’ve realised that in reality I’ve been plinking for the last few years.  PRL has added some focus and I’m looking forward to more of the same next year irrespective of what banner it is under.

Forget the idea of “politics” and “competing series” and  think of it as more opportunity to get out and shoot, learn and compete with those like minded folk.   

In relation to what we all spend annually to shoot and compete £60 vs £100 per day and the provision/non provision of a bacon sandwich is a minor issue to me but I appreciate we all have to make financial decisions. I certainly don’t see any of the range operators retiring to the Bahamas by running a couple of comps a year and I am already seeing facilities being upgraded.  More shooters and more venues will start to generate some degree of market forces but at this point the choices are relatively limited.

Forget the excuses, sign up for some events next year and go and have fun 👍

 

[Brushy]

Indeed. I only missed Gardeners this time around and am keen to give the SIS a go next year; in addition to the excellent PRL. 

Newbie’s should just sign up and crack on. 

[TC]

To get this back to the original topic I shot a Desert Tech SRS in .260.  I started off shooting 123gr but have switched to 147gr for better long range capability and impact signature.  

Note use of 2 bags, get over it, it’s just easier than using a rucksack!

 

[terryh]

TC,

Concur with the cost thing, non issue when you look at the overall cost to go to a distant 2 day comp, or from a different perspective, just don't go out for a nice meal once a 1/4 and there's the price difference 😉

Also found the same thing re. your comment 'what I was shooting' and what there was out there to challenge me, living in the US at the time I shot quite a few of the SH Cup's & Bashes, TacPro, etc. but all pre-PRS (2003-2009). Very demanding with competitions being won with less than 50% of the possible hits - you went away realising what you could not do, but having a bloody good time finding out. If you have access I did a piece in Shooting Sports Aug 2007 edition on a SH cup (1st one with a helicopter stage - big grins)

PRS came along in the US and changed all that and the IMHO 'gaming' came into it, folks had trouble handling the 'missing' bit (cannot possibly be me?) - same as happened in CAS and things like silhouette, they are demoralising (hit or miss, no score of a 4 for 'close' as in say F-Class or TR).

Hence my personal 'angst' re. adding kit to turning every obstacle or challenge into a flat shooting position i.e. as close to prone as possible. Again this is just a personal view and how I see the challenge, but if it's within the rules have at it, as a caveat here is a comment re. status of PRL in the US from someone who's seen it all develop that sums it up:

 'with 400 matches and 6000 shooters it's just an assembly line now with little or no practical application beyond your ability to buy a hit with better equipment'

But back to the OP, when I finally get to shoot a comp, as opposed to a practice, it will be with my now 12 year old (4th barrel) 6.5x47 KMW Sentinel, 130g bullets, one rear back and a backpack.

T

[lapua]

Terry, out of interest, what does the sentinel weigh all up? I remember mine being about 16lbs i think.

[terryh]

Lapua,

I'll go weigh mine tonight and revert - but I scored a CF version of Terry's stock while visiting him so might not be truly indicative? ! 😎

T

[terryh]

.... 13 pounds 5 oz with full mag, no bi-pod

Rifle has a 25” Med Palma barrel fitted 925” from front of action).

T

[ds1]

Terry, sums It up perfectly 

6 hours ago, terryh said:

 'with 400 matches and 6000 shooters it's just an assembly line now with little or no practical application beyond your ability to buy a hit with better equipment'

I think PRS in the US is going down the same sad path as IPSC pistol.

A possible way to “keep to the spirit” is keeping the COF as varied as possible and add in other realistic factors like all kit carried at all times and everything in one rucksack ...... Having to walk some with all your kit is not a bad thing. 

[terryh]

Dave,

That is exactly what I refer to, all be it tongue in cheek, with the ‘shiny shirts’, as soon as this pervades along with organised/sponsored teams then is it ‘game over’. Your example of IPSC is correct, this was my ref to CAS in my previous post, which started off handgun targets 10 - 20 yards, lever rifles out 40-50yards (steel targets against the clock BTW), now handgun is 7-10 and rifle in around 25 so reduced to speed shooting. Give me IDPA over IPSC any day (but think that’s even going a bit skew)

The original SH Cup and Bash etc were exactly as you say, you carry everything for the day, food, ammo, handgun etc. Only top up was water (as South TX is a bit warm!). there was also variations in the competition format, e.g. a non stop 24 hour comp (that was actually 25 hours as the clocks changed 😱), a 308 issued ammo/stock Glock to remove the ‘windcheater’ cartridges. All friendly but competitive, no gaming etc. You  cam away tired but with a grin.

Now I’m sounding like an old fart ‘the good old days’ etc - dam I am my father! 😩

Terry

[SBP]

Just a quick one but a Sassen cut barrel just won the European F TR championships. Some fine shooting by Dan Lomas. 

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2019/09/european-f-class-championships-at-bisley-in-the-united-kingdom/

Cant be that bad then 😉

 

[Ronin]

Taken from the Midnight Sun Rifle Challenge web page 

What the “Vikings” used this year ;

Action make

Scope make

Cartridge 

No specifics on scope specification but there’s an underlying trend clear to see 

 

Quite possibly due to what actions are available over there and what cartridge is used most for target / hunting 

Food for thought though 

 

[lapua]

They like the ‘55

[Ronin]

They seem to - it works 

 

I wonder what the teams will

be using next year 

[terryh]

Think the ‘55’ in Norway is a legacy ‘like’ as their Krag’s were in this so it becomes the favoured cartridge, like the US love of the 30-06 (as in ‘not much can’t be fixed with either $200 or a 30-06’ 😁)

nice cartridge and if you use Skan data it will equal the a la mode cartridges, just a bit of pain re. Bolt face and length or magazines, but not too shabby for a 125 year old cartridge?

Ran one for deer and it just ‘worked’, not sure the difference between it and sat the Creed or 47 would make it that much better? Still, nice to be different!

T