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Miseryguts

Big problem with new rifle

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Hi, this one is outside my experience.

New rifle,  took to range with some shop ammo, unable to close bolt.

Came home inserted bran new full sized case, could close bolt if I whacked it with heel of hand (loth to do that with live cartridge!!)

Attached are photos of brass transfer to bolt face, and scratches to cartridge bases.

Head space problem would surely just knock the shoulder back?

M (even more miserable now)

 

 

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20190805_115855.jpg

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Not at all good.  Please don't shoot me down for being rude but are you sure it's a .308Win chamber?

What rifle is it, it looks old

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As Pops says, what action/rifle is it?

Factory or custom build?

Also are those ejectors moving freely?

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M (even more miserable now) 

😂😂😂 Love it

Hope you get it sorted mate

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19 minutes ago, bradders said:

As Pops says, what action/rifle is it?

Factory or custom build?

Also are those ejectors moving freely?

Brand new factory rifle  - Sauer 100 Field shoot 308 win calibre, and yes both the rifle, brass and cartridges all say 380 win

the two ejectors have very strong springs but seem ok movement wise, it takes a bit of effort to depress them, but if I remove the bolt and use  a case I can depress them and clip under the extractor fairly easily.

The bolt chambers the case, but unless I whack the bolt down, the case stays in the chamber when I withdraw the bolt. If I whack it down, then it all extracts. It is the whacking down that is giving the brass damage, but why I am at a loss

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3 minutes ago, Miseryguts said:

Brand new factory rifle  - Sauer 100 Field shoot 308 win calibre, and yes both the rifle, brass and cartridges all say 380 win

the two ejectors have very strong springs but seem ok movement wise, it takes a bit of effort to depress them, but if I remove the bolt and use  a case I can depress them and clip under the extractor fairly easily.

The bolt chambers the case, but unless I whack the bolt down, the case stays in the chamber when I withdraw the bolt. If I whack it down, then it all extracts. It is the whacking down that is giving the brass damage, but why I am at a loss

I'd be burning up the tarmac back to the dealer who sold it you!  Brand new? That bolt looks horrible - maybe just the light?

 

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Clean the chamber and barrel - there may be some debris in the chamber causing the ammunition not to chamber properly 

 

If the chamber is clean and free of debris ,,,,,,,and the ammunition still will not chamber without a fight 

 

Take the rifle back to where you bought it and ask them to check headspace with go / no go gauges to start with

 

Is there any marking on the shoulder of the cases you have tried to close the bolt on 

 

Have you tried any other factory ammunition in it other than what you have in the inages 

 

Any 308 proofed with SaAMI / CIP gauges should accept any factory produced ammunition that comply with SaAMI /CIP 

 

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Bring it back, I would not touch a rifle out of that factory. On German forums they suggest that Blaser/Mauser/Sauer only proof the odd rifle (in house proofing ) ….. I think that is true.

edi

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1 hour ago, Ronin said:

Clean the chamber and barrel - there may be some debris in the chamber causing the ammunition not to chamber properly 

 

If the chamber is clean and free of debris ,,,,,,,and the ammunition still will not chamber without a fight 

 

Take the rifle back to where you bought it and ask them to check headspace with go / no go gauges to start with

 

Is there any marking on the shoulder of the cases you have tried to close the bolt on 

 

Have you tried any other factory ammunition in it other than what you have in the inages 

 

Any 308 proofed with SaAMI / CIP gauges should accept any factory produced ammunition that comply with SaAMI /CIP 

 

Yes, before I took it to the range I cleaned it and had a look down the bore with  bore light. The ammo is winchester and the cases are PPU sized in a F/L die.  Have ordered a Head Space bushing but they are out of stock at 1967 Spud. When I push the bolt forward on the case, the bolt stops about 2mm short. If I then exert straight line force on the bolt, it goes fully home, and closes fairly easily. If I then raise the handle, it goes back down easily, but if I extract and start again, then force is again required. This leads me to think it is a problem with the extractor not sliding under the rim? Or am I completely wrong and its all down to the chamber headspace being wrongly machined?

1 hour ago, Popsbengo said:

I'd be burning up the tarmac back to the dealer who sold it you!  Brand new? That bolt looks horrible - maybe just the light?

 

Yes, its the light and lack of pixels. Sadly the dealer (also a friend) has gone on Holiday  til next Saturday

M (still pretty miserable in S Wales)

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3 minutes ago, ejg223 said:

Bring it back, I would not touch a rifle out of that factory. On German forums they suggest that Blaser/Mauser/Sauer only proof the odd rifle (in house proofing ) ….. I think that is true.

edi

I am rapidly coming round to that - but how does one stand on the exchange - this rifle is now on my ticket - do I have to get another variation?

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12 minutes ago, Miseryguts said:

I am rapidly coming round to that - but how does one stand on the exchange - this rifle is now on my ticket - do I have to get another variation?

possibly but it's a free one.  I'd phone the FEO and discuss.

 

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is there any visible damage to the shoulder or neck of a chambered case?

If it's too short headspace I'd expect the shoulder to show it too.  If it's the neck binding then the size will be reduced or at least showing signs when you inspect it after chambering.

 

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sounds a bit 'extractorish' issue? does the extractor move / slide easy? try overdoing it with some lube or grease around the extractor, maybe a bit on the sloped face (where it rides up over the rim) just as a test 

The photo does make it look a bit rough.

T

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4 hours ago, Miseryguts said:

Yes, before I took it to the range I cleaned it and had a look down the bore with  bore light. The ammo is winchester and the cases are PPU sized in a F/L die.  Have ordered a Head Space bushing but they are out of stock at 1967 Spud. When I push the bolt forward on the case, the bolt stops about 2mm short. If I then exert straight line force on the bolt, it goes fully home, and closes fairly easily. If I then raise the handle, it goes back down easily, but if I extract and start again, then force is again required. This leads me to think it is a problem with the extractor not sliding under the rim? Or am I completely wrong and its all down to the chamber headspace being wrongly machined?

Yes, its the light and lack of pixels. Sadly the dealer (also a friend) has gone on Holiday  til next Saturday

M (still pretty miserable in S Wales)

Does the action ‘dry fire’ ok?perhaps something inside the bolt is binding up when cocking the firing pin spring or compressing the ejector springs

its times like this where you start having to eliminate possibilities... hope it’s an easy fix 👍🏻

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Yes, it sounds like the extractor is not sliding out to clear the edge of the case as you close the bolt. Also, the chamfer angle of the extractor looks very shallow.

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So how did it pass proof?

Pete

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Good question. Makes me wonder if it's a problem with the brass and/ or the sizing process rather than the rifle.

Could the neck and shoulder have stuck in the die and been pulled forward making the case too long?

 I can't see mention of factory ammunition being tried.

Edit 

I see there is mention of Winchester ammo.

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26 minutes ago, L B Jefferies said:

Good question. Makes me wonder if it's a problem with the brass and/ or the sizing process rather than the rifle.

Could the neck and shoulder have stuck in the die and been pulled forward making the case too long?

 I can't see mention of factory ammunition being tried.

Edit 

I see there is mention of Winchester ammo.

In the original post, Mr Miseryguts tried "shop bought"

If I had a brand new expensive rifle I'd want the seller to sort this out not run around trying to obtain gauges to test it!

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16 hours ago, Miseryguts said:

Brand new factory rifle  - Sauer 100 Field shoot 308 win calibre, and yes both the rifle, brass and cartridges all say 380 win

the two ejectors have very strong springs but seem ok movement wise, it takes a bit of effort to depress them, but if I remove the bolt and use  a case I can depress them and clip under the extractor fairly easily.

The bolt chambers the case, but unless I whack the bolt down, the case stays in the chamber when I withdraw the bolt. If I whack it down, then it all extracts. It is the whacking down that is giving the brass damage, but why I am at a loss

I had a problem with a 270 I had fitted a new barrel to. A tight chamber and the slightest bit of dirt would cause the case to stick like glue after firing. I polished the chamber out with a wool mop and Autosol chrome polish - worked a treat. If the gun is brand new then it needs to go back to the supplier!

I have a friend who has just acquired a Sauer in 6,5 Creedmore. The Laminated stock had a split when delivered and had to go back. Maybe their Quality Assurance isn't up to par!!!

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The rifle passed the Proof House right ? Check your brass. It sounds like you fired it in another rifle and think you’ve sized it. 

Have you tried new brass ?

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Try factory ammo, the fault is more likeley to lie in your brass than the rifle.   If the same again then return, I have had similar issues with custom rifle,  the fault always lay with the extractor spring or obturating rings( think that's right) when used with a Ar 15 style extractor. 

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1 hour ago, TJC said:

The rifle passed the Proof House right ? Check your brass. It sounds like you fired it in another rifle and think you’ve sized it. 

Have you tried new brass ?

Some people doubt that all (Isny) rifles are proofed, only random proofing out of a batch. I do not know if that is true but it seems to be said time and time again.

edi 

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Thanks for all the suggestions., and thanks to all who took the time to make said suggestions

to answer some of the questions above, as in my previous posts

The empty cases are brand new and sized in a brand new F/L sizing die

I have tried standard ammunition - Winchester

I will be returning the rifle as soon as the owner returns

I agree that Sauer are crap at QC and how the hell did the proof house test it without chambering a cartridge!! - or doesn't proof require firing a proof load any more?

M (pretty pissed off in wet S wales)

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Have had the same issue with a 243 a few years ago ...new brass and factory ammo were fine .My fired brass even though Norma/Lapua was fired through another rifle .Bought a body die and problem solved ..

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