6.5 creedmoor and N160 with 140 gn ELD-M

[lapua]

is anyone using this combo? I'm about to start loading for the 140's and have loads of N160, is it worth using or should I go straight for RS powder?

it will be for shooting in the PRL final initially, not the ELR day or anything, so about to 600m max. barrel is 22".

I'm on a bit of a tight timescale to get it up and running with holidays/work and dies turning up (or not!), so don't want to be wasting any time.

I also have 130's if they would be better with the n160, but am happy to use them up on other stuff

thanks in advance

[Brushy]

I use n160 with the 139 scenars and shoots great! 

[lapua]

Some velocity data. 22” bartelin, hornady brass, 0.002 neck tension, cci br primer, 140 eld-m

creeping above book max with no pressure signs whatsoever 

[baldie]

I've just gone a similar route Gary.

Using norma brass, with a br2 primer.

41.5 grains of 160 with a 140 grain nosler RDF.

It produced 2800 fps in a 26" Sassen, on my AI. 

Good speeds, but the sassen's  tend to shoot faster than any other barrel I've used anyway.

ES of 13.

The load wasn't sparkling accurate until I got to full throttle. It will stand some more too, but those figures and its accuracy are plenty good enough.

I also tried the same bullet with 560. That produced 2900, but the ES's were poor.

[biged85]

3 hours ago, baldie said:

I've just gone a similar route Gary.

Using norma brass, with a br2 primer.

41.5 grains of 160 with a 140 grain nosler RDF.

It produced 2800 fps in a 26" Sassen, on my AI. 

Good speeds, but the sassen's  tend to shoot faster than any other barrel I've used anyway.

ES of 13.

The load wasn't sparkling accurate until I got to full throttle. It will stand some more too, but those figures and its accuracy are plenty good enough.

I also tried the same bullet with 560. That produced 2900, but the ES's were poor.

I have really struggled to get anything better than 1 MOA with 140 RDF's and even then I get the odd flyer.

Out of interest, what sort of jump worked for you Baldie?

I use RS62, can't remember the weight off the top of my head, I get about 2670 fps with an ES of 30 😕 which is just pants.

[Charlts]

22 minutes ago, biged85 said:

I have really struggled to get anything better than 1 MOA with 140 RDF's and even then I get the odd flyer.

Out of interest, what sort of jump worked for you Baldie?

I use RS62, can't remember the weight off the top of my head, I get about 2670 fps with an ES of 30 😕 which is just pants.

Don't be afraid to jump them, I've used 140gr RDF's very successfully in a few guns and the jump has always been between 110-140 thou. Currently I'm running 42gr RS60, jumping 110 and getting 2770fps with an ES of 13 last time I ran them over the chrono, that's from a 24" factory Howa barrel.

[Catch-22]

46 minutes ago, biged85 said:

I have really struggled to get anything better than 1 MOA with 140 RDF's and even then I get the odd flyer.

Out of interest, what sort of jump worked for you Baldie?

I use RS62, can't remember the weight off the top of my head, I get about 2670 fps with an ES of 30 😕 which is just pants.

What primer are you using? 

In the past I had huge issues with crap ES/SD in my 6.5x47. ES was like 50fps or something horrible.

A switch from CCI450s to Murom KVB-223m brought my ES down to around 12fps with an SD of 9, with no other change what so ever to the load.

In a new rifle (also 6.5x47) my current load gives me an ES of around 13fps and SD of 6. The best I’ve achieved with this rifle and primer combo was ES of 4, SD of 1 but the MV was too low.

Worth borrowing some different primers off someone. Laurie’s extensive primer testing has shown it’s all about tuning the components and a primer change can make all the difference to both ES/SD and group sizes too.

Good luck!

[biged85]

41 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

What primer are you using? 

In the past I had huge issues with crap ES/SD in my 6.5x47. ES was like 50fps or something horrible.

A switch from CCI450s to Murom KVB-223m brought my ES down to around 12fps with an SD of 9, with no other change what so ever to the load.

In a new rifle (also 6.5x47) my current load gives me an ES of around 13fps and SD of 6. The best I’ve achieved with this rifle and primer combo was ES of 4, SD of 1 but the MV was too low.

Worth borrowing some different primers off someone. Laurie’s extensive primer testing has shown it’s all about tuning the components and a primer change can make all the difference to both ES/SD and group sizes too.

Good luck!

I have tried the CCI BR2's and am now using Federal Match LRP's as they show a small improvement and cost less. I am using Starline Brass as Norma and Hornady performed even worse. Unfortunately my rife does not like Lapua SRP brass, the primers get pierced even with moderate loads. 

It's just weird, I can get amazing performance reloading my .223 and follow the same procedure for my 6.5 creedmoor but I just can't get the results. I want H4350 back!!!!! boohoo

[Dellboy]

Very new to this reloading thingy (appologies in advance for asking stupid questions ), but what about 147's(or heavier)   would it react the same way as the 185 head in 308 over long range (1000- 1200 ) ?

[SMLE]

4 hours ago, Charlts said:

Don't be afraid to jump them, I've used 140gr RDF's very successfully in a few guns and the jump has always been between 110-140 thou. Currently I'm running 42gr RS60, jumping 110 and getting 2770fps with an ES of 13 last time I ran them over the chrono, that's from a 24" factory Howa barrel.

Funny how everyone tells you that you need a 10 thou jump or thereabouts! I’m using 139 Scenar’s in my 6.5 creedmoor, over 43.5g RS62 with CCI 450’s at 45 thou jump and getting from my Howa typically 0.6moa at 100 yards. Last chrono session gives me 2740 FPS with spread of 17 and sd of 6.9.

At 600 yards mostly v bulls or 5’s. Off to Bisley next week to see what they’ll do at a 1000.

[Charlts]

46 minutes ago, SMLE said:

Funny how everyone tells you that you need a 10 thou jump or thereabouts! I’m using 139 Scenar’s in my 6.5 creedmoor, over 43.5g RS62 with CCI 450’s at 45 thou jump and getting from my Howa typically 0.6moa at 100 yards. Last chrono session gives me 2740 FPS with spread of 17 and sd of 6.9.

At 600 yards mostly v bulls or 5’s. Off to Bisley next week to see what they’ll do at a 1000.

If it works then maybe everyone should say "you need a bigger jump"?:D:D

[Catch-22]

4 hours ago, biged85 said:

I have tried the CCI BR2's and am now using Federal Match LRP's as they show a small improvement and cost less. I am using Starline Brass as Norma and Hornady performed even worse. Unfortunately my rife does not like Lapua SRP brass, the primers get pierced even with moderate loads. 

It's just weird, I can get amazing performance reloading my .223 and follow the same procedure for my 6.5 creedmoor but I just can't get the results. I want H4350 back!!!!! boohoo

If you’ve tried different cases and primers with the Nosler 140gn RDF, I’d consider changing the bullet. The 139 Lapua Scenar is an excellent bullet for the money and a lot of people get on with them, regardless of jump. Seems to be one of those ‘unfussy’ types - just works well. And a lot of people find RS62 to be a very good powder, myself included in my 6.5x47.

[baldie]

I started with the RDF's lightly pushed into the lands. By that, i mean gentle thumb pressure on the stem of the hornady case gauge, pushing them gently. That enables a loaded round to be extracted, without pulling the bullet.

The RDF in any calibre has to have its own sweet spot. They behave similarly to a VLD. Either in the lands, or you have some work to do.

Testing the .224 bullets in a Valkyrie, the sweet spot was 0.040" back [limited with an AR15 mag ]

Try the seating depths the same as berger recommend. In lands. 0.040" back, 0.080" back, and 0.120" back. Just shoot 3 of each depth, and one will be strikingly obvious. Work either side of that.

The RDF bullets have very high BC's and common with all bullets like that, require a bit of work. F1 performance, always comes at a price.

[baldie]

5 hours ago, Dellboy said:

Very new to this reloading thingy (appologies in advance for asking stupid questions ), but what about 147's(or heavier)   would it react the same way as the 185 head in 308 over long range (1000- 1200 ) ?

Worth a try Del, but the barrel may or may not stabilise them. its a 1-8".

I feel the 147 and SMK 150 may be a touch too much for the creed, in much the way I've always thought that 140's were too much for a 6.5 x 47.

People forget that the magic BC number on the box, is allied to a certain speed. If the case is incapable of pushing it at those speeds, regardless of how accurate it is at 100 yards, the true bc of the bullet, will not be attained.

In order to try out these "heavy for calibre" super bullets, I'm going to chamber up a .260 ackley barrel for one of my AI rifles. The mag will just about take it in short action. That will have the boiler room for these bullets.

[Aggy]

Going down the 6.5 reloading route at the moment For my Tikka Tac bought some Lapua brass but still need to pick up everything else and make a start hoping for great things 😁

[Ronin]

2 hours ago, baldie said:

Worth a try Del, but the barrel may or may not stabilise them. its a 1-8".

I feel the 147 and SMK 150 may be a touch too much for the creed, in much the way I've always thought that 140's were too much for a 6.5 x 47.

People forget that the magic BC number on the box, is allied to a certain speed. If the case is incapable of pushing it at those speeds, regardless of how accurate it is at 100 yards, the true bc of the bullet, will not be attained.

In order to try out these "heavy for calibre" super bullets, I'm going to chamber up a .260 ackley barrel for one of my AI rifles. The mag will just about take it in short action. That will have the boiler room for these bullets.

Hallelujah 

 

someone else seen the light instead of following the flock to the “sacred” creedmoor 

😃

[baldie]

Luckily both you and I are in a position to experiment Andy.

Personally, I love the Creedmoor. Worn three barrels out shooting allsorts with them, and It will be the last cartridge I ever ditch.

As with all cartridges, it has its outright merits, and also its limitations.

I blame the bullet makers. They keep bringing out these heavy for calibre bullets, when in reality, virtually all of them can be likened to a stunning woman, a thoroughbred horse, or an F1 racing car/bike.

Mad as a sack of badgers.

Guys who have had a gun built, or shoot a factory gun, like to try these things. Dont we all ? But it often ends in tears when they can't get them to work, because a bit of the crazy criteria is missing.

I learnt a valuable lesson at Tiff's place in the last PRL.

A creed shooting 123's won't cut the mustard, if you want to chance your arm in the ELR day on sunday.

I was surrounding the long range stuff at 1350/1400, but they were transonic. My mate was hitting them with a .260/140g Berger.

Just that little bit extra did it.

There is so much truth in the old saying. "use enough gun"

The creed with 140's will just about do it. A 6.5 x 47 would be pissing in the wind.

All very similar at normal ranges. Shove the envelope and the wheels come off.

I'm talking ELR here, not the sub 1000 stuff.

Important for the guys who only run one all rounder.

I reckon Gary [op] is about bang on the money with the 140 or the 143. Its about as much as it will take, and work properly.

[Scooby-93]

My creedmoor is doing 2866 fps with 147 eldm using viht n160, but I do have a long barrel so I’m assuming that’s contributing to the speed.

so it all depends on the spec of the build as to get the most of out the cartridge 

 

 

[lapua]

Shot a nice little group last night with the 41.5gn ammo that i had left over from running it in. Load development starts now. My freshly repaired jewell trigger seems to work ok