Quick DIY Annealing Question

[gruntus]

Hi Gents,

A quick question for anyone that is using a DIY method for annealing brass (I am annealing .308 Lapua).

I am using propane, have a 1" flame about 1/4" away from the neck and shoulder junction and using yellow 650 degree F tempilaq as an indicator.

The Tempilaq turns black for me but I am only in the flame for approx circa 4 seconds (the brass does not glow which I understand to be avoided).

Can anyone confirm approximately how long they leave their brass in the flame? Looking at Raptors machine it looks near enough 8 seconds. 

I know this is obviously very subjective but I don't want to destroy the brass by overcooking it and hence being a little hesitant to start with.

Any pointers would be appreciated.

All the best

G 😊

[Popsbengo]

Tempilaq in the inside of the case - should just go clear when target temperature is reached.  Time depends on flame heat.  Molten salt is the way to go - much better control 😁

 

[gruntus]

I know, I built my current rig about 6 weeks before I noticed it on the forum (everything is in the timing isn't it). 🙄

Thanks for the information Pops, theres a lot of conflicting info out there.

May go molten salt given its fairly inexpensive (relatively speaking).  I'm just a bit put off of potential accidents. I can see myself in full face mask, leather apron and gauntlets. 😉

All the best

G

[Catch-22]

I too have an annealing machine from 'Rapter Calls'.

Besr in mind you might not have the same gas canister and torch head as everyone else, so intensity and heat of flame will vary...as will the timings you see reported.

Best thing to do is sacrifice a couple of pieces of brass. Use these to work out your optimium timing and flame setup. Reuse these pieces of brass each time you need to set the machine up each time (if you have to pack it away each time after use...as I do).

I use the 750 degrees GREEN Tempilaq paint. Dab some on the INSIDE of the neck and leave to dry for a few seconds. I do this initially with a really old case to get me on the ball park time frame. Then a further piece or two to dial in the refined timings.

My tempilaq didn't go clear, rather it gave off a feint green flame/glow then left a black residue. I think it goes clear if you have New/Clean brass but goes black if used on previously fired brass, with carbon on the necks. Dunno for sure...just what I've read.

I shine a torch into the neck and watch closely for the green flame. I angle the flame at the neck/shoulder junction. When I see that green flame I move the brass on because I know it's reached 750 at this point and the delay in my reaction time has meant a further fraction of exposure to the flame, so is already moving up a tad more reaching optimum annealing temp.

its a good system overall and I've had good consistent results from it. The machine works very well...especially for the money.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

[Popsbengo]

14 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

My tempilaq didn't go clear, rather it gave off a feint green flame/glow then left a black residue. I think it goes clear if you have New/Clean brass but goes black if used on previously fired brass, with carbon on the necks. Dunno for sure...just what I've read.

I shine a torch into the neck and watch closely for the green flame. I angle the flame at the neck/shoulder junction. When I see that green flame I move the brass on because I know it's reached 750 at this point and the delay in my reaction time has meant a further fraction of exposure to the flame, so is already moving up a tad more reaching optimum annealing temp.

Is that black with some carbon deposits from the neck or black as in charred?  If it's the latter, the flames way to hot.  The Temelaq isn't designed to give off a green flame!

[Catch-22]

16 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

Is that black with some carbon deposits from the neck or black as in charred?  If it's the latter, the flames way to hot.  The Temelaq isn't designed to give off a green flame!

Unsure...only ever used Templiaq on previously fired cases, so presence on carbon on the necks. Maybe something to do with that?!

[gruntus]

Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.

G😊

[Popsbengo]

11 hours ago, gruntus said:

Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.

G😊

👍

[Kevgun]

Is there a list of parts to build a salt annealer, Fizz has just done one, so i might have a go, i'm halfway through a gas annealer build so might carry on with that for time being, i was going to use the Map gas bottles and have managed to find a regulator that fits on the bottle for a more consistent flame/temperature and a timer unit for the length of time in the flame.

[Popsbengo]

11 minutes ago, Kevgun said:

Is there a list of parts to build a salt annealer, Fizz has just done one, so i might have a go, i'm halfway through a gas annealer build so might carry on with that for time being, i was going to use the Map gas bottles and have managed to find a regulator that fits on the bottle for a more consistent flame/temperature and a timer unit for the length of time in the flame.

there's a whole thread on the molten salt annealer, 'twas me that started it.

[Kevgun]

Hi Pops, yes i have just read it through, i'm going to compile a list of parts required, only thing i see being a problem is which type of thermocouple to get and where and what type of salt.  

[Popsbengo]

The salts are in the original post.

Thermocouple needs to be a type k but ensure it's rated for >500C as some are only good for <450C (cheap Chinese eBay).  Try RS for a probe and a digital thermometer.  The salts are easy to get from APC Pure.

[gruntus]

Kevgun, 

I would be interested in the list once you have it as I think I may convert.

It certainly appears to be more consistent for an even temp distribution over the single gas DIY rig that I have.

I hope pops is getting commission from Lyman, RS etc. 😉

ATB

G 😊

[VarmLR]

I use a raptor machine and propane gas with the torch flame at the hottest point just onto the neck of the case mid point.  Time for 308W is 4.5 seconds, time for 6.5CM is 4 seconds.  I have used tempilaq 650 to check timings and re-tested on lots of case samples (tumbled and deprimed).  All show the same indicator.  In a dark room, the neck just starts glowing cherry red.  In daylight, the flame the far side of the neck turns yellow for approx 1 second or less prior to the end of the annealing but the brass doesn't appear to glow (you only see this in a darkened room).  Tempilaq just starts turning black on the inside of the necks.  I don't bother using it at all now as for all my calibres/cases, the exact same test revealed the exact same thing so for any brass batch now, I try a sample case in a darkened room and the instant I see a dull cherry red glow form, that's the timing selected for that batch.  I had started doing this without tempilaq until I was shouted down by others who knew better, but all it's proved to me is that the exact same results are obtained, same timings, so I'm happy to continue doing it this way and leave the tempilaq sat on a shelf.

[Kevgun]

I Think i'm going to complete my gas annealer first and see how it goes, seeing as i'm 75% finished.