Ammo Wallets

[Hobbit]

Genuine question - would our esteemed constabulary not take issue with someone travelling to and from a range or stalking ground with a bunch of loaded mags?

I remember being told not to do it with an air rifle before I had a FAC

[Hobbit]

+1 on Ulfhednar - 40 slots and, as Baldie says,  very good quality

 

[MrCetrizine]

8 hours ago, Hobbit said:

Genuine question - would our esteemed constabulary not take issue with someone travelling to and from a range or stalking ground with a bunch of loaded mags?

I remember being told not to do it with an air rifle before I had a FAC

I asked my FEO about it and was told that a removable magazine is an ammo box with a spring in it in his eyes. An integral magazine however should not be loaded except at the range.

Don't know if that's law or opinion though.

[Popsbengo]

8 hours ago, Hobbit said:

Genuine question - would our esteemed constabulary not take issue with someone travelling to and from a range or stalking ground with a bunch of loaded mags?

I remember being told not to do it with an air rifle before I had a FAC

Depends on your FEO.  Our target club, and ones we share the range with, do not allow mags to be loaded except on the firing point. Anyone turning up with loaded mags would be "counselled".

[bradders]

3 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

Depends on your FEO.  Our target club, and ones we share the range with, do not allow mags to be loaded except on the firing point. Anyone turning up with loaded mags would be "counselled".

Really????

How is a magazine any different from a stripper clip or charger?

A loaded magazine is not a loaded firearm

[Popsbengo]

1 hour ago, bradders said:

Really????

How is a magazine any different from a stripper clip or charger?

A loaded magazine is not a loaded firearm

Yes really, why would I have written it if not the case?  🤫

You're not wrong in your comparison - I'm just reporting the reality that some clubs implement their own rules,  best be aware of that.

[bradders]

18 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

Yes really, why would I have written it if not the case?  🤫

You're not wrong in your comparison - I'm just reporting the reality that some clubs implement their own rules,  best be aware of that.

Because people say all kinds of things.....🤣

If my club was that anal I wouldn't be in it for long

[brown dog]

1 hour ago, bradders said:

Really????

How is a magazine any different from a stripper clip or charger?

A loaded magazine is not a loaded firearm

I seem to remember that in UK case law it was judged to indeed be that: A filled mag, even detached from the weapon was judged to constitute having a loaded weapon, if in a public space. I think the same judgement determined that the interior of a car is considered a public space. Ergo, filled mag in same car as firearm = loaded firearm in a public space.

Google it - I don't have the will 😊

[bradders]

16 minutes ago, brown dog said:

I seem to remember that in UK case law it was judged to indeed be that: A filled mag, even detached from the weapon was judged to constitute having a loaded weapon, if in a public space. I think the same judgement determined that the interior of a car is considered a public space. Ergo, filled mag in same car as firearm = loaded firearm in a public space.

Google it - I don't have the will 😊

Err nope, not that concerned as I don’t believe it to be an issue, and there may be supporting evidence on the other side of the argument, but I’m not googling that either

Actually curiosity got the better of me and I found this, which states that a gun is only loaded if the loaded magazine is attached

https://www.brabners.com/blogs/regulatory-health-and-safety/carrying-your-firearm-public-place-what-does-law-say

[MrCetrizine]

I just called my friendly BASC bloke.

The firearms act does not differentiate between loaded and unloaded. It only states that you must have authority to have a firearm (loaded or unloaded) in a public place. Your FAC gives you this authority if you're on the way to or from a range/permission. You can carry a rifle with one in the chamber if you want.

[bradders]

1 minute ago, MrCetirizine said:

I just called my friendly BASC bloke.

The firearms act does not differentiate between loaded and unloaded. It only states that you must have authority to have a firearm (loaded or unloaded) in a public place. Your FAC gives you this authority if you're on the way to or from a range/permission. You can carry a rifle with one in the chamber if you want.

Well I wouldn't do that, and I don't hunt any more....haven't done so in years

From my position, if we were to wait until we had 30 shooters on the point before giving them permission to load their mags, we'd never get the matches completed, so loading your mags behind the point or travelling to the match with loaded mags is just fine

Of course you are always going top have some that interpret the rules differently and can't be swayed, but in law a firearm is only considered loaded when there is a round in the chamber (actually that's "ready") or it has a loaded magazine attached

[MrCetrizine]

But the law doesn't care if its loaded or not...

"Carrying firearms in a public place(section19ofthe1968Act)

22.15  Section 19 of the 1968 Act makes it an offence to have in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof of which lies on the accused) a loaded shotgun, an air weapon (whether loaded or not), any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or an imitation firearm."

I wasn't and wouldn't advocate carrying a gun with one up the spout or even condition 3 but the law doesn't care. It only cares that you are allowed to have the gun.

[Popsbengo]

If someone turned up at a club target shoot with a loaded (not ready) gun that's the last time they would attend my club.  That's about the most stupid thing I've read on here.

 

 

[bradders]

7 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

If someone turned up at a club target shoot with a loaded (not ready) gun that's the last time they would attend my club.  That's about the most stupid thing I've read on here.

 

 

Where did you read that?

[brown dog]

We went round this buoy before a while back.  The 'non-believers' were those unable to understand the difference between Statute Law and Case Law.   

Read the CPS guidance on prosecution and sentencing. The 'system'  will assess and handle people differently depending on, amongst other things, whether the firearm in question was loaded or not:

Charge vs not charge.

A little porridge vs a lot of porridge.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms

[bradders]

8 minutes ago, brown dog said:

We went round this buoy before a while back.  The 'non-believers' were those unable to understand the difference between Statute Law and Case Law.   

Read the CPS guidance on prosecution and sentencing; you will be assessed and handled differently depending on, amongst other things, whether the firearm in question was loaded or not.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms

Well I'm not smart enough to make sense of any of that, but I do know it's quicker to load and make ready a single shot rifle such as a Ruger No 1 or  Martini, or a break action shotgun/rifle than it is with a detachable box mag, and a stripper is possibly even quicker, so I consider the point moot

[MrCetrizine]

But that's only if you don't have authority to possess. Illegally carrying a loaded firearm is obviously going to show more intent than an empty one and thus result in a more severe charge/sentence.

But with authority to possess, no crime is committed wether loaded or not, so no charge or sentence will happen.

I'm obviously only talking about possession in public within the scope of your FAC. Which will typically only be travel to and from certain places and home. Taking your guns for a day out at the beach will clearly put you into the illegal public possession category wether you have a FAC or not.

[brown dog]

Agreed, it only matters if a decision is being made as to whether an individual is to be charged or prosecuted.   ....but, at that point, it suddenly really matters 😊

 

A thought:

Do you transport your rifles in gun covers, slips or cases? 

If so, why?

I would stand corrected, but I believe there's nothing in statute law mandating covers, slips or cases. 

...but we all use them.

 

[Hobbit]

22 minutes ago, brown dog said:

Agreed, it only matters if a decision is being made as to whether an individual is to be charged or prosecuted.   ....but, at that point, it suddenly really matters 😊

 

A thought:

Do you transport your rifles in gun covers, slips or cases? 

If so, why?

I would stand corrected, but I believe there's nothing in statute law mandating covers, slips or cases. 

...but we all use them.

 

Again - I understood that in a public place they should be in a slip or case - where I rough / walked up shoot it is insisted on. Whether this is law or just not to antagonise the police I do not know but I would assert that anyone walking around in public with a rifle or shotgun (not on a permission but on a road etc) is asking for trouble and not doing the rest of us any favours

[MrCetrizine]

I do cover mine but only for convenience.

Because not doing so would likely cause a call to the police. The police would have to respond and I'd likely get detained (probably with physical force which would cause me serious injury as I'm still recovering from major surgery). Ensuring I had legal authority to own guns and transport them would take time and resources.

So I use bags/cases to prevent wasting police time and money and my time as well as avoiding another hospital stay. Also it makes them easier to carry.

I used to shoot the feldschiessen in Switzerland before I got sick and there you are not allowed to cover your guns. It's a real pain carrying the gun and a bag full of stuff for it instead of just a bag full of gun and stuff.

[brown dog]

8 hours ago, MrCetirizine said:

I do cover mine but only for convenience.Because not doing so would likely cause a call to the police. The police would have to respond and I'd likely get detained (probably with physical force which would cause me serious injury as I'm still recovering from major surgery). Ensuring I had legal authority to own guns and transport them would take time and resources

My point was only meant to show that we all use covers because we recognise, that although not required by statute, they're common sense to avoid unwanted policing or legal outcomes.  I'd suggest ditto for travelling with filled magazines 😊

[MrCetrizine]

But how would the police know your magazine was loaded? Unless you're towing an Oerlikon.

[Popsbengo]

1 hour ago, MrCetirizine said:

But how would the police know your magazine was loaded? Unless you're towing an Oerlikon.

Well they wouldn't would they 😁  However, if you were stopped is it a risk worth taking?   I'm speaking from a purely target shooter's perspective - I see absolutely no reason for a shooter to have loaded mags on his/her way to the range.

[MrCetrizine]

I don't either but it's still not illegal.