MichalS Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 I just finished first part of my first ever load development. I want to have the best possible cartridge for my DIY 300m ISSF rifle based on Tikka T3x in .223 Rem. I aimed for 2800fps with 80gr Sierra MK and achieved it perfectly on the first try with 24.6gr RS52. The thing is it was so easy I'm wondering if to go even higher? Rifle is a stock T3x .223 24" 1:8 Varmint, 80gr SMK, COAL 2.44" (.020 to the lands), Federal GM primer, new GGG brass with 30.0gr water capacity. The thing is I shot in 9*C temperature, and we had 30*C during last Nationals. Strelok calcululates my load will generate 2900fps in that temperature, so I'm a bit cautious... Do You have any empirical data on RS52 temperature sensitivity? Also I would like to thank Laurie, VarmLR, Bradders, Re-Pete and others who put me on the right track form the very beginning of my adventure Attached are the load/velocity table and photo of the brass from the 24.6gr load. TIA, Michal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tictac Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 Do you have a slight ejector mark at 8 o'clock in that photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 That's the same load of RS52 that I'm using with 80grain SMK's, but I seat quite a bit longer at 2.56", and my MV is 2900 fps with a 30" barrel. I had the throat adjusted to make room for 26.2grains to get a bit more speed (3050) for 1000yds. What is also interesting is that QL usually underestimates the velocity with RS 52, but your QL predictions and actual readings are very close. I haven't seen a problem with temp. sensitivity, but then in the UK really hot days are few and far between, although the Imperial was a bit sweaty last year. Looks like an encouraging start 👍 !! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 Your load is fine and I wouldn't be inclined to go any higher than that, especially as it's only for 300M Chamber length seems pretty std, Pete has something resembling a Colt 5.56 NATO chamber The advantage you have over Pete is you can chase the throat with OAL seating depths as it erodes, he does't really have that option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalS Posted February 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 Thank You all! The reason I'm contemplating a slightly hoter load is I'm currently at 98% case fill according to QL (I can hear powder moving inside). I'm wondering if going closer to 100% (25gr) would produce more uniform velocities (lower SD)? Then again, I would probably be pushing pressures... Michal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC Posted February 1, 2019 Report Share Posted February 1, 2019 I’m testing some RS62 at the moment and it’s more temp sensitive than I expected. Not yet finished working through it, need some warmer weather for that but it’s approx 0.8 FPS per 1F change at lower temps but these things aren’t always linear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinC Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 Michael That is very interesting, I and my wife are serious ISSF 300 mt shooters, we are members of the gb300m club at Bisley and we shoot Keppelers in 6mmBR, and have reloaded for that, 6mm in various formats is the normal go to calibre for 300 mt and all the top world level shooters use that. BUT! I also shoot TR with a Dolphin/Barnard P in 7.62, and fed up with getting knocked about by recoil I have just had a Barnard P in .223 remington with "wylde" chamber, 1 in 8 Bartlein barrel 27 in built! The intention is to shoot casual TR and also I'm interested to see how well we can get it to shoot at 300 mt as the 6 mm rifles, and the ammo, is very much limiting on cost for new people shooting 300 mt. I have not even run this out fit in yet, and I will try it in anger at the first 300 date at Bisley a training week end 16/17th of March, see the club website just google "gb300m" If any one would like info on 300mt I happy for them to email me on robin.carter80@ntlworld.com as I have only registered here to answer this, although I hope to find it interesting. Have Fun Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 Apparently, some years ago, .223 was used for TR. Mine's a Tikka M595 action, and I've fitted a CG-Jackson 2-stage trigger that breaks around 450 grams. It's single shot, with a nicely fitted aluminium shoe in the magazine recess, and a laminate thumbhole stock. It came with Trakker aperture rear sight and adjustable front sight, and has an 8 twist barrel 760mm long. I use it for informal target practice with a scope these days. In flat calm weather (very rare on Stickledown), it's perfectly capable at 1000yds. Re-Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalS Posted February 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 hours ago, RobinC said: BUT! I also shoot TR with a Dolphin/Barnard P in 7.62, and fed up with getting knocked about by recoil I have just had a Barnard P in .223 remington with "wylde" chamber, 1 in 8 Bartlein barrel 27 in built! The intention is to shoot casual TR and also I'm interested to see how well we can get it to shoot at 300 mt as the 6 mm rifles, and the ammo, is very much limiting on cost for new people shooting 300 mt. Robin, The whole driving force behind my .223 project is to build an affordable 300m ISSF rifle with affordable amunition for a casual shooter. I'm a ISSF air/smalbore shooter, last year dipped my toe in F Class with moderate success (3rd at Nationals) and this year I'll be playing @300m. I'm building a T3x Tikka in a custom stock with Walther sights. According to ballistic calculator with 80gr Sierra @2800fps I will be giving up around an inch of wind drift in 4m/s (10mph) wind compared to factory 6mm BR Lapua. It doesn't seem too bad... I may consider a short "production" run if the project is successfull to make the equipment more accesible (we only have a handfull competitors now because of the cost). I will taka a look on Your website. I'm describing the projects progress on FB (unfortunatelly in Polish😞 https://www.facebook.com/dlugidystans/ Michal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinC Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 Sounds Interesting Michal, I did not realise you were in Poland, so we won't be seeing you at Bisley soon! My project is similar, and yes re-Pete .223 is still permissible in TR as shown in the NRA bible, and is allowed in some TR comps in the UK, not sure which ones, but you would need a 1500 gm trigger to shoot it in TR. We have shot 300mt Internationally and I've not seen any one shoot with other than one of the 6 mm calibres, but we'll see. I know some shooters in Canada use .223 in 300mt, but I'm not sure how competitive their scores are. One was used very successfully in this years GB 300 mt Championships to win it with 590 ex 600, my wife was second with her 6 mmBR Keppeler with 589 and was not amused! It was a windy day at Bisley (as usual!) and he did use 90 gn handloads, which needed a 1 in 6 or close twist, and chambering which meant he could shoot little else than 90 gn and the guy was a very respected wind shooter, which I think will be the issue. My project is in 1 in 8, as my first task will be to try the commercial GGG 69 gn match to see how accurate that is, if its good enough in a match set up I won't bother to reload, as that's a chore I'm trying to avoid as we load 2000 a year now for 6 mmBR. But if that's not accurate enough I will work up an 80 mgn handload. I'm using the standard Barnard trigger in mine which with the light springs can be set around 150 gms, although they specify 250. I have no Idea how competitive it will be , every one here tells me it won't be, (which has just driven me on to make it so!) If it is competitive it will give cheaper options to the Keppeler's, Grunig and Elminger, and Bleikers, all of which are the current expensive flavours of the month, especially if it will shoot the Match GGG 69 gn (SierraMK) commercial ammo well enough which costs little more than it costs to reload the 6 mmBR. Its only just finished so no pics yet, I'll post some as soon as I get some. Have Fun Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalS Posted February 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 What can I say - great minds think alike, but I'm one step ahead I also wanted to be able to use GGG, but the just introduced 77gr SMK one which is basically a Mk 262 Mod 1 clone and much better ballistically. I was able to test it before official market introduction (see photo of 5 shot group @100m) because of my F Class "sucess" with GGG ammo. They are around 80 p a piece in Poland. Forget 69gr, go 77gr but be aware You're giving alot away ballistically compared do 80gr (G1 BC of .301 vs .375 vs .461 accordingly). I'm not worried about beeing competitive - of the 10 guys who shoot 300m, 5 shoot 590+ so I will be concentrating on having fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinC Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 Thanks Michal I now need to see if its available in the UK yet, so I may be limited to the 69 until it is. But it looks like some one at GGG was on the same wavelength and have produced just what I want! Pic attached is our 300mt rifles, the new .223 in the forground, and our two Keppeler 6mmBR's behind it, the wife's is obviously the purple one! I'll let you know how the .223 shoots after mid March when we have our first date, and If I can be any help do not hesitate to email me. Have Fun Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalS Posted February 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 It's a great looking rifle You have there! A great stock, looks a bit like a Dolphin? If any moderators are reading this, maybe we could move the non-powder related discussion into another thread? "223 rifle for 300m ISSF" maybe? Michal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinC Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 Thanks Michal Yes its made by Dolphin, they do all my machining/gunsmithing, its was built to my spec, shorter, the grip is my "standard" that I use for all my rifles, a Walther KK300 (small), the butt plate is the old style Walther KK200 which Walther still make to special order, and I also use on all my rifles. The folding check piece is my design with a stainless hinge to fold side ways, mounted on a Dolphin height adjuster, I do the same on the Keppelers and convert their height mech to be hinged sideways. If you want to start a thread such as suggested or just for all " ISSF 300 mt" I'm happy to contribute, I suspect we may be the only two on here who shoot ISSF 300 mt though. Have Fun Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 The 77 grain GGG load is due out, but its silly money. You could reload it for a lot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinC Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 No one in the UK has any yet, I've asked the NRA if they will bring some in so we can test it, we'll see. It's on a French site at 15.90 Euro per 20, which is cheaper than the GGG 69 gr match is here, but I suspect it will be at least the same by the time it gets here, which compared to match ammo is still cheap, match grade, I've only found Hornady 75 gr Match in the UK, and that is silly money. I really don't want to reload .223, I do 2000+ match grade 6 mmBR reloads a year, and have little interest unless I'm forced to in reloading .223 as well, but if there is no commercial ammo worth using that will hold match accuracy at up to 600 yds, then I will have to. Have Fun Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 47 minutes ago, RobinC said: No one in the UK has any yet, I've asked the NRA if they will bring some in so we can test it, we'll see. It's on a French site at 15.90 Euro per 20, which is cheaper than the GGG 69 gr match is here, but I suspect it will be at least the same by the time it gets here, which compared to match ammo is still cheap, match grade, I've only found Hornady 75 gr Match in the UK, and that is silly money. I really don't want to reload .223, I do 2000+ match grade 6 mmBR reloads a year, and have little interest unless I'm forced to in reloading .223 as well, but if there is no commercial ammo worth using that will hold match accuracy at up to 600 yds, then I will have to. Have Fun Robin There's 15k rds due in late Feb/Early March Price is expected to be a little more than 69gn Match, so not prohibitive.....at least compared to RWS Match, Federal GM and Black hills....which is unobtainable anyway I have already been given pricing on GGG 77gn Match....but that's for another day 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinC Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 Thanks Bradders Where will it be obtainable from? If you are not allowed to say on this forum can you email me on robin.carter80@ntlworld.com Have Fun Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, RobinC said: Thanks Bradders Where will it be obtainable from? If you are not allowed to say on this forum can you email me on robin.carter80@ntlworld.com Have Fun Robin Enter the March CSR matches, be a man amongst men and I will whisper it into your ear...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinC Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 I don't shoot CSR!!! 300 mt and TR Aha, worked it out from the adverts! Have Fun Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinC Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Still no sign if the GGG77gr yet, but I did test the outfit at Bisley at 300 mts on the March 16/17th weekend, Yes the blowy one! Actually it was a full on gale, with the NRA on warning that they may shut the range, but we did get through it! I used the GGG69gr Match as the 77 is not in the UK yet. Far from ideal conditions to test a new .223 but I have to admit I was quite impressed, the wind was crazy but I shot reasonably close to a similar score to what I would have expected in those conditions with my 6mmBR. I tried it again also with the 69 gr a week later at a local TR shoot at 3, 5 and 600 yds, again in tricky winds (does it hunt me out?), it was good at 300, but almost a waste of time at 5 and 6. I'm still working on rifle set up and balance to get it stable, but it bodes well. I'm not making any real judgements until I get a chance to shoot in more sensible conditions, and with the likely more suitable GGG 77gr Match when its available, we'll see how it goes then, I really hope the 77 is OK as I don't want to load, but if I have to, then so be it. Have Fun Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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