firedoc Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Just now, sam39 said: Fire service carry out a magnificent job. I thought of them as life savers rather than “enforcers” 😎 That's why we save lives by enforcing fire safety legislation to make buildings safe 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1562 Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 As certificate holders/firearms owners we have an absolute duty to keep them secure, the police have a right to check that security at any reasonable time. If that is all they are doing, you do not have to let them in(and they do not have a power of entry)if it is inconvenient ,and may ask them to return at a different/more convenient time. This is what has happened here. If they are acting on specific intelligence or as a result of a specific threat this is entirely different and they will force entry if you do not allow them entry. My advice would be as above. Regards, Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 I have had the Police turn up unannounced several times and I’m always polite and let them in for a chat, and for whatever they want there are more unexpected and random checks these days, it’s the way it is with various threats, It wouldn’t bother me if they were armed, I am a gun nut and have lived in countries where all the Police are armed, it’s just part of their equipment The only thing to fear is fear itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam39 Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rob1562 said: As certificate holders/firearms owners we have an absolute duty to keep them secure, the police have a right to check that security at any reasonable time. If that is all they are doing, you do not have to let them in(and they do not have a power of entry)if it is inconvenient ,and may ask them to return at a different/more convenient time. This is what has happened here. If they are acting on specific intelligence or as a result of a specific threat this is entirely different and they will force entry if you do not allow them entry. My advice would be as above. Regards, Rob. This makes perfect sense. Unfortunately interpretation of the guidelines varies from county to county but I understand they are trying to do the best they can. I have no issues with Northumberland and find them excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Whilst i had a visit recent , it was because id moved about a mile down the road . It was a std security cheak . I expected the FLO to come in the usual police van / ford trasit connect i think . Well thats what They've turned up in the passed over the years . But this time unmarked van - no police uniform ( had black issue trousers and boots and a navy short sleeve shirt ) as such and i said thank god - its something you dont want some if not all people knowing or have them asking and talking spreading the word . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattnall Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 14 hours ago, Rob1562 said: the police have a right to check that security at any reasonable time. No they don't. They have the right to show up and ask to see the firearms which, as you rightly say, should be secured in accordance with the licence etc. But you don't have to let them in, you can insist they make an appointment. If they had any intelligence to suggest an issue they'd have a search warrant and you'd have no say in the matter at that time. Having said that, your security arrangements should be all above board with nothing where it shouldn't be and unless it is really inconvenient to you why not let them in for a chat? It won't hurt to get on friendly (or friendlier) terms with the FEOs and police in general, just keep some chocolate biscuits on hand just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 17 hours ago, sam39 said: So no justification for selecting a few random FAC holders for checks that are showing no threat.The visit was not justified (presuming no “specific intel in light of a specific threat”) trurning up armed totally un necessary The only justification could be the arms are safer in the possession of the officers rather than left locked in their vehicles. Has someone landed you in it? Sound malicious to me. never heard of this before only with aggravating cercumstances. Arguments, confrontation..... What are you on? Can you read? You clearly have trouble spelling. No-one has "landed me in it" as you put it and there's nothing malicious about providing HO guidelines to clarify what the guidelines are. Please keep your idle speculation to yourself. Yout post was uncalled for, overly aggressive and plain ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Mattnall said: No they don't. They have the right to show up and ask to see the firearms which, as you rightly say, should be secured in accordance with the licence etc. But you don't have to let them in, you can insist they make an appointment. If they had any intelligence to suggest an issue they'd have a search warrant and you'd have no say in the matter at that time. Having said that, your security arrangements should be all above board with nothing where it shouldn't be and unless it is really inconvenient to you why not let them in for a chat? It won't hurt to get on friendly (or friendlier) terms with the FEOs and police in general, just keep some chocolate biscuits on hand just in case. At last, someone speaking sense. Point is, that armed officers turning up unannounced clearly brings unwanted attention to the FAC holder, and no-where within anything that I have read suggests that these checks must only be made by armed officers. Your FEO can make the inspection and if there's any issues, he has the power to remove firearms until such time as arrangements pass muster. As Matt suggests, unless a warrant has been issued, you have the right to refuse access and ask for written notice of a randomly chosen inspection. Random, in this instance, means that FAC holders may be randomly picked out, but turning up unannounced is likely to result in a "please come back later" response if it is inconvenient to you at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 14 hours ago, gunner said: Whilst i had a visit recent , it was because id moved about a mile down the road . It was a std security cheak . I expected the FLO to come in the usual police van / ford trasit connect i think . Well thats what They've turned up in the passed over the years . But this time unmarked van - no police uniform ( had black issue trousers and boots and a navy short sleeve shirt ) as such and i said thank god - its something you dont want some if not all people knowing or have them asking and talking spreading the word . Absolutely Gunner. It's not a wise thing for anyone other than those who need to know that you have firearms at your property. Certainly, at the very least, attention oughtn't to be drawn to it. I've found Glos licensing team very good in this respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Cant remember the chaps name but he was a nice chap , however he viewed the cabinets and i said do you want to cheak each serial number ? ( like its been previously done ) he declined . Now , upon recipient of new tickets they were wrong in 3 different aspects . There not perfect but no one is . Generally tho agree there normally pretty good . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Bloody Hell, there's a lot of emotion around this! The law and Police guidance is clear and available to anyone on the UK Gov. website. I count myself lucky to have reasonable FEOs in North Staffs. I do agree that sending tactical officers does somewhat undermine privacy, raising questions and gossip for neighbours. I guess they need to find ways to manage their work-load. If it was just down to the FEOs to make all home visits we would be moaning about the time it takes to get a variation or a renewal done. As far as being armed, I can't see any reason for a FAC holder to get emotional, they're not attempting to threaten you - because if they were you've got some serious problems ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam39 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 7 hours ago, VarmLR said: What are you on? Can you read? You clearly have trouble spelling. No-one has "landed me in it" as you put it and there's nothing malicious about providing HO guidelines to clarify what the guidelines are. Please keep your idle speculation to yourself. Yout post was uncalled for, overly aggressive and plain ignorant. I was backing you agreeing with you and using the official information you posted. You have the wrong end of the stick old boy. I was asking if someone was acting in a malicious manner towards the original post or had landed him in it to warrant an armed un announced visit. sorry if I caused you insult your are correct my spelling is not top notch sorry about that too while I am on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cat Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 On 1/21/2019 at 4:42 PM, One on top of two said: Now everyone down your street knows you have firearms and therefore potentially putting your security efforts in doubt. How does "everyone" now know this? Do these inspections involve taking one's firearms outside for a better look? I receive visits from police officers all the time. They arrive in a variety of marked and unmarked vehicles, in uniform and plain clothes. They drink my tea and coffee, scoff all my biscuits and cake.......they're a bloody nuisance. Especially the one that's my daughter. As my neighbours, your neighbours or indeed anyone else's neighbours can't tell from their doorsteps or behind their twitching curtains the reason for any visit from the rozzers (apart perhaps from anyone living near Mystic Meg) I think you're stretching it. Me, I can't wait for an inspection. I'm betting a pound to a pinch of sh.....snuff that they'll never find my cunningly disguised ammunition safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCetrizine Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 One of my neighbours once commented that she was glad I had guns because she knew I was not a criminal. Unlike our other neighbours who could be up to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One on top of two Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Paul Cat said: How does "everyone" now know this? Do these inspections involve taking one's firearms outside for a better look? I receive visits from police officers all the time. They arrive in a variety of marked and unmarked vehicles, in uniform and plain clothes. They drink my tea and coffee, scoff all my biscuits and cake.......they're a bloody nuisance. Especially the one that's my daughter. As my neighbours, your neighbours or indeed anyone else's neighbours can't tell from their doorsteps or behind their twitching curtains the reason for any visit from the rozzers (apart perhaps from anyone living near Mystic Meg) I think you're stretching it. Me, I can't wait for an inspection. I'm betting a pound to a pinch of sh.....snuff that they'll never find my cunningly disguised ammunition safe. The OP was on about the police turning up in full TAC/ firearms on display, surly this is obvious to anyone with a brain it’s not for a neighbourhood watch meeting , turning up in plain clothes or uniform is fine , but is there really any need to turn up in full Tac ? What are they expecting? Like has already been said , if they had any intelligence there could be a problem they certainly would not be ringing your doorbell expecting a cuppa and some of your custard creams . The vists are not planned therefore they could arrive dressed little more suitable , we as shooters are perceived by many of the public as nutters and turning up dressed in this was only fuels some of the public’s perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Paul Cat said: How does "everyone" now know this? Do these inspections involve taking one's firearms outside for a better look? I receive visits from police officers all the time. They arrive in a variety of marked and unmarked vehicles, in uniform and plain clothes. They drink my tea and coffee, scoff all my biscuits and cake.......they're a bloody nuisance. Especially the one that's my daughter. As my neighbours, your neighbours or indeed anyone else's neighbours can't tell from their doorsteps or behind their twitching curtains the reason for any visit from the rozzers (apart perhaps from anyone living near Mystic Meg) I think you're stretching it. Me, I can't wait for an inspection. I'm betting a pound to a pinch of sh.....snuff that they'll never find my cunningly disguised ammunition safe. If your neighbours are used to police visits as your daughter is an officer then you're not likely to be exposed to nosey neighbours gossip. I think it may be a little more 'news worthy' for those of us who rarely see a uniformed cop let alone an armed one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabaliHunter Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 On 1/22/2019 at 7:48 PM, Rob1562 said: If they are acting on intelligence, then they do have a power of entry and refusing entry will end up in a whole heap of **** ! But as I understand it, they would still require a warrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 " completely EU indoctrinated "....................here we go again................ Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cat Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Popsbengo said: If your neighbours are used to police visits as your daughter is an officer then you're not likely to be exposed to nosey neighbours gossip. I think it may be a little more 'news worthy' for those of us who rarely see a uniformed cop let alone an armed one! But that doesn't explain how a visit from the bizzies tells the neighbours you've got firearms. How does that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cat Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 3 hours ago, One on top of two said: The OP was on about the police turning up in full TAC/ firearms on display, surly this is obvious to anyone with a brain it’s not for a neighbourhood watch meeting , turning up in plain clothes or uniform is fine , but is there really any need to turn up in full Tac ? What are they expecting? Like has already been said , if they had any intelligence there could be a problem they certainly would not be ringing your doorbell expecting a cuppa and some of your custard creams . The vists are not planned therefore they could arrive dressed little more suitable , we as shooters are perceived by many of the public as nutters and turning up dressed in this was only fuels some of the public’s perception. Yes, the OP was "on about" the appearance of those who visited him but I wasn't commenting on that. I was asking, and am still intrigued to know, how that identifies anyone as possessing firearms? Armed plod are more common these days and while them appearing tooled up might be alarming it could be for any number of reasons. Bank robbers, drug dealers, bombers etc.....<insert list here>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 9 hours ago, Paul Cat said: But that doesn't explain how a visit from the bizzies tells the neighbours you've got firearms. How does that happen? It doesn't directly but I think it does raise questions and therefore attracts attention. That's all. "Plod" are anything but "more common these days" around my neck of the woods so armed officers do stand out a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re-Pete Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 Probably all my neighbours know I shoot..................a couple of them refereed me when I started 12 years ago, and I arranged a trip to a Bisley open day for a couple of others. Mind you, I have lived here for 37 years.............and houses very rarely change hands in what is a very nice place to live. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cat Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 On 2/3/2019 at 10:34 AM, Re-Pete said: "Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum" Lucretius Amen. 😉 On 2/3/2019 at 10:34 AM, Re-Pete said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TattooedGun Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 I'm tempted to agree with the sentiment of Paul Cat. Police officers turning up armed or unarmed is neither here nor there on the whole street knowing your business. Even as a firearm owner, the last thing I think if I see a marked or unmarked car is "Ooh, I bet they own firearms"... I'd probably be wondering if they'd been a witness to some crime, had some crime happen to them, or are friends with the officers... I think some of you guys have far too much imagination.... Much more of a giveaway is the walk to the car with a rifle shaped case multiple times per week at all hours with various game hung over your shoulder on your return... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popsbengo Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 4 hours ago, TattooedGun said: I'm tempted to agree with the sentiment of Paul Cat. Police officers turning up armed or unarmed is neither here nor there on the whole street knowing your business. Even as a firearm owner, the last thing I think if I see a marked or unmarked car is "Ooh, I bet they own firearms"... I'd probably be wondering if they'd been a witness to some crime, had some crime happen to them, or are friends with the officers... I think some of you guys have far too much imagination.... Much more of a giveaway is the walk to the car with a rifle shaped case multiple times per week at all hours with various game hung over your shoulder on your return... You make good points, it isn't a big deal one way or the other to me. As far as game hung over the shoulder, that's not my thang but that would freak some of the neighbours for sure! Bambi is safe around here, maybe would get hugged to death 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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