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Worth a read...........


Re-Pete

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1 minute ago, Reloader54 said:

"Swing voters"???  is that like wanting to take another vote to enable all those not quite of voting age to perhaps increase the number or "remain" votes at the same time hoping all the old people who "stole your future" passed away, and in reference to the "racist tool" maybe he was trying to protect his 12year old daughter from the local asian/muslim grooming gang.

you're  correct in a couple of things though,,, Farage would continue to campaign to leave the failed project before it sucked the life from the uk and probably imploded itself. camoron completely underestimated the gen pop, and  it's gone downhill from there, quite probably contributed to in a large part by various groups attempting to reverse the vote.

I believe even if that were to happen it would take bigger balls than this pathetic bunch of eu pets have shown to possess.

and they quite likely would unleash a beast they couldn't even comprehend controlling.

and I doubt we will ever agree. 

 

I would council against making implied threats on a public platform.  As a firearms owner you should know better.  I of course know you're just letting off steam.

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3 minutes ago, MJR said:

Seems strange doesn't it that the retainer's camp seem most vocal in wanting a second vote. When we have a general election the electorate vote and a new party or coalition as the case may be is formed as a result. Do the loosing party supporters bay for a second vote? No. The vote this time went with the leave camp, like it or not that was the majority. 

The EU and the remainer's have raised many so called issues and perceived problems as to why the UK cannot leave or should strike a deal tying the UK to EU without a vote on how its run. All the politicians are running around like headless chickens with the Irish border seemingly the unresolvable issue. Really? Switzerland is geographically in the middle of Europe but not a member state of the EU, it does have trade deals and No hard borders. So what's the problem? Rees Mogg said it best, the EU is a rule driven state, happy to bend the rules when they see fit but completely inflexible when not. 

 

We have a general election every five years (or sooner occasionally) so we do get to have a re-run.  Your argument makes little sense.

Switzerland does have a 'hard border' I go through it regularly when I fly to Geneva to go to France.  The border guards occasionally pull over vehicles for inspection. Granted it's 99% 'open'.  However the Swiss solution is not acceptable to the Good Friday Agreement.

 

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1 minute ago, Popsbengo said:

I would council against making implied threats on a public platform.  As a firearms owner you should know better.  I of course know you're just letting off steam.

I can't decide if you are trolling for a response, or just acting  plain stupid.  what are you on about "implied threats" on public platforms?? 

seriously??? I can think of much more pleasurable ways of "letting off steam"

send me your address I'll post you a box of straws to clutch onto,,, you must have crushed the current handful to a pulp by now.

calm down dear,   ["oops now I'll get accused of gender assumption"B)

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35 minutes ago, Roy W said:

Didn't we do this in 2016? Then it was passed into law by the same self-serving hypocrites now trying to overturn it?

 

Yes and I support leave and would like a form of “real brexit” , however you’ve not quoted the whole of what i’d like to see happen, which is an attempt of a sort of 2015 reset, allowing farage and co to succeed or fail at the ballot box at the same time as putting labour and conservative on notice as to the portion of the electorate looking for an alternative.

Any Brexit ( if there is one) is not going to be anything I or many others envisaged or hoped for , parliament is going to ensure its as close to staying in as possible.

They also will not go for a second referendum on the same stay or leave question because they are not sure they’d win or that a win would be by so slim a margin as to solve nothing.

So my suggestion was to start again, allow the Farage UKIP a fair chance and give all sides the chance to persuade the electorate of the best way forward , then have a second referendum on a basis of a real Brexit if the result was to leave.

It won’t happen so my opinion means little. 

But the whole process has been a disaster in respect of the electorates trust in our democratic process and those that we elect. Sadly there is no real prospect of any real change in politics, the conservatives are pushing ahead with their plans on the basis that Corbyn had his best chance in 2017 and though he came close, he’s unlikely to win the next election. There is no longer any alternative party of any real worth to hold either side to account or become the “kingmaker” in a hung parliament.

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24 minutes ago, Artiglio said:

Yes and I support leave and would like a form of “real brexit” , however you’ve not quoted the whole of what i’d like to see happen, which is an attempt of a sort of 2015 reset, allowing farage and co to succeed or fail at the ballot box at the same time as putting labour and conservative on notice as to the portion of the electorate looking for an alternative.

Any Brexit ( if there is one) is not going to be anything I or many others envisaged or hoped for , parliament is going to ensure its as close to staying in as possible.

They also will not go for a second referendum on the same stay or leave question because they are not sure they’d win or that a win would be by so slim a margin as to solve nothing.

So my suggestion was to start again, allow the Farage UKIP a fair chance and give all sides the chance to persuade the electorate of the best way forward , then have a second referendum on a basis of a real Brexit if the result was to leave.

It won’t happen so my opinion means little. 

But the whole process has been a disaster in respect of the electorates trust in our democratic process and those that we elect. Sadly there is no real prospect of any real change in politics, the conservatives are pushing ahead with their plans on the basis that Corbyn had his best chance in 2017 and though he came close, he’s unlikely to win the next election. There is no longer any alternative party of any real worth to hold either side to account or become the “kingmaker” in a hung parliament.

+1 for common sense from the leave side of the argument.  I would happily support your idea.

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1 hour ago, Reloader54 said:

I can't decide if you are trolling for a response, or just acting  plain stupid.  what are you on about "implied threats" on public platforms?? 

seriously??? I can think of much more pleasurable ways of "letting off steam"

send me your address I'll post you a box of straws to clutch onto,,, you must have crushed the current handful to a pulp by now.

calm down dear,   ["oops now I'll get accused of gender assumption"B)

"and they quite likely would unleash a beast they couldn't even comprehend controlling"  Is that just a prediction what others may do?

I'm pretty sure we've flogged each other to exhaustion now so I'm signing off further EU commentary.  No harm done, no harm taken.

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17 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

 

 

17 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

"and they quite likely would unleash a beast they couldn't even comprehend controlling"  Is that just a prediction what others may do?

I'm pretty sure we've flogged each other to exhaustion now so I'm signing off further EU commentary.  No harm done, no harm taken.

at the risk of ignoring you may cause others to read into something that isn't actually written maybe I should clarify, It has been stated on the denial,overturning or causing to become void by any means of the democratic result by the Tories would result in voters losing faith in not only the party but the entire democratic process they would "never vote again" that could well in the absence of any other suitable party result  in corbyn and his merry band of misfits   grabbing the reins by default, If you think the present crowd are problematic,,, wait until the  "beast from hackney" gets a bit of power. and lets not forget labours stance on private gun ownership,,, unless you belong to one of the various terrorist orgs he seems to favour of course.

 

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22 hours ago, Popsbengo said:

 I didn't think the country was daft enough to vote leave...

 

As a cleverer man than me sagely said on the subject of 'we weren't given the facts', he replied 'the stupid man gets the same vote as the wise man'.

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@popsbengo ,as you brought up "Predictions" it appears the eu have some of their own,,,, or it could be just more straw clutching project fear type stuff??? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6639399/Brexit-leave-UK-unstable-decades-violence-streets-EU-secret-report-warns.html

seems to be all sweetness and content in france then does it.:wacko:

 

"eu intelligence" now there's two words I never thought I would see in one sentence same goes for "secret report"  yeah,,, in a national newspaper,????  I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Russians yet..  I hear Putin is allegedly behind it all.

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On 1/27/2019 at 4:24 PM, Popsbengo said:

For the record I don't think everyone who voted leave is a fool.  Well, I believe in representative democracy not a form of mob rule, for that is exactly what a referendum is. How can complex multilayered issues be properly presented in a society of sound bites and ranting news media?   I still contend that a goodly proportion of those that voted leave did so not out of any deep conviction or idealogical position but because they were daft enough to believe a bunch of twits putting lies on a big red bus.  I can respectfully disagree with those who made an informed judgement but why should I respect foolishness in believing self serving political lies?  I contend that the middle 10% will change their minds now they're properly informed (well, exposed to the arguments).  Ref 2 now please

Having said you don't believe in "The mob rule that is a referendum" how do you in all conscience ask for another? Unless your sort of democracy is of the kind where you keep asking the question until you get the answer you want and then shut down the debate?

David.

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Worth a look is EU brexit interview with Dennis skinner MP for Bolsover,

makes a lot of sense whatever your political view ,and shows a refreshing honesty and insight,

"Westmonster Dennis skinner Eu brexit interview "

 

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Yep, he's a great MP..................pity he's the only one left now.

But, he has absolutely no more idea of what leaving the EU will mean in terms of jobs, infrastructure, and the simple cost of living, than the rest of the politicians from either side who are presently struggling to keep their seats on the gravy train.

It probably won't make a scrap of difference to the likes of rees-mogg, but I'm not too sure about our old friend Joe Public, the guy who can't afford a second home and servants, who doesn't drink champagne or have to commute at vast expense to hold a job down...............

Re-Pete

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Bad grammar there........should have put "and has to commute" instead of "doesn't have"....................

Pete

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On 1/24/2019 at 11:53 AM, VarmLR said:

Quite honestly?  These articles sicken me because they make out all Brexit supporters to be ill educated neanderthals who didn't know what they were voting for and are unwilling to reason.  That voters understood that no one person, let alone anyone putting a cross in the box, understands all the potential and real issues seems to have been conveniently forgotten. 

The princples at stake do matter to many of us, and the economic fallout is to be expected as it's the medium term penalty for most likely longer term gain but UK and EU politics are all like the economy, about short term greed and gain.  With the principles at stake, of course people are emotive and cannot be shaken, because belief in something isn't just Utopian, it's what is at stake as part of our identities and our way of life.  Who we are matters  and the nation has gone to war in the past to maintain those freedoms and identities.  I'm not saying anyone will go to war over Brexit, but as a set of driving principles, most voters have seen nothing but the sneering divisive face of corrupted Euro politics for years all engineered from the earliest of days to lead us to one single point...a Federal Sates of Europe.

There are as many arguments for leaving as for remaining, it's just that the easy option appeals to those who couldn't be arsed with the alternative.  Personally, I think it's immaterial what way people voted as on it's current course, the EU will most likely crash and burn within the next 5 to 10 years anyway and we'll be left pretty much in the same boat.  No-one has a crystal ball, but there's so much speculation and B/S flying around on all sides, you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise.  People wanted out of the EU and not out of Europe (another distinction conveniently forgotten) nor, ideally out of a common market.  The EU's end goal is full on Federalisation and loss of national identity, whatever claptrap they try to spin now.  Thanks to the likes of Bliar and subsequent politicians, we have been frogmarched right up to the front gates before coming to our senses, so whatever the future holds, I'd hope that it'll be a damned sight more organised and settled (no-matter what some of us would like to think)  than this train crash of a political and economic mess that we find ourselves in now.

Well said and nicely put.

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I recently said of Dennis Skinner:

"But, he has absolutely no more idea of what leaving the EU will mean in terms of jobs, infrastructure, and the simple cost of living, than the rest of the politicians from either side who are presently struggling to keep their seats on the gravy train."

The way things are going with the rise of the ultra-right in the EU, my comment is equally relevant if we stay in...............................sadly.

Re-Pete

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6 hours ago, Re-Pete said:

I recently said of Dennis Skinner:

"But, he has absolutely no more idea of what leaving the EU will mean in terms of jobs, infrastructure, and the simple cost of living, than the rest of the politicians from either side who are presently struggling to keep their seats on the gravy train."

The way things are going with the rise of the ultra-right in the EU, my comment is equally relevant if we stay in...............................sadly.

Re-Pete

I think that's probably the truth whatever we decided.  It's worrying though to note that some of the ultra-right leanings with some European countries are similar to those of 80 years ago.  This isn't though to be confused or deliberately (or otherwise) conflated by those holding strong pro-EU views in this country with those accused of being "far right" for wanting out of the whole mess. 

 

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"The road to hell is paved with good intentions.............."  Angry Myrtle's policy on immigration, for example ?

Pete

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