Worth a read...........

[Reloader54]

7 minutes ago, Gluv said:

If anything other than "No Deal" is your wish then you are nothing other than a brain washed sock puppet .....your political masters have you firmly under the boot where you belong🙁

Stop watching the bullshit on the news .....you probably want to lay off the tap water too 👍

Personally I don't care if I have to eat nettle soup for the next twenty years , it will be worth the cost !

Gluv🇬🇧

👍

[VarmLR]

1 hour ago, Reloader54 said:

👍

+1 With bells on.

What is unbelievable is remoaners challenging the views of those who want out of the EU as "unbelievable".  The sooner we're out the better.  At least it'll focus minds on the business of getting on with things and hopefully put a stop to the toxicity of the whole thing which sees friend pitted against friend and family member against family member.  That's one of the more tragic side effects, not whether our bleeding share value is up or down .  As to the comments about people being made redundant...people have been made redundant for less over the past few decades...any excuse to "streamline" under the way many companies have been run.  Of course we all have sympathy for those it'll negatively affect in this respect, and my own business will be hit hard as will my income which is marginal as it is, but I genuinely think that the UK will be better off longer term.  I couldn't give a fig who agrees or not because I didn't vote for what others believed, I voted for what I believed after thinking long and hard (the present day EU issues were thought about long before we were given the option of voting) .

[Popsbengo]

1 hour ago, Gluv said:

If anything other than "No Deal" is your wish then you are nothing other than a brain washed sock puppet .....your political masters have you firmly under the boot where you belong🙁

Stop watching the bullshit on the news .....you probably want to lay off the tap water too 👍

Personally I don't care if I have to eat nettle soup for the next twenty years , it will be worth the cost !

Gluv🇬🇧

Oh dear.

[VarmLR]

6 hours ago, Popsbengo said:

VarmLR:  I've read the article and I can't see the left bias you see. Nowhere in the piece does it suggest Brexit or Remain as a preferred choice.  I think it makes a valid argument that we tend to confirmation bias of what we already believe (Catch 22 makes the point).  It's a fact that Brexit was misrepresented to the people by those politicians with personal axes to grind - evidenced by the current state of affairs.

Brexit is many things to many people,  it's an "act of faith" as there's precious little evidence in favour and plenty of evidence to support the status-quo.  As far as the EU imploding, what do you base that on?  It's more likely that we will have confrontation with Russia and that's a unifying force.

 

Better late than never!  Yes, I' hadn't read the full article to be fair, just skimmed through it and I do agree with what the article says about your first point except it's also true (here's the balance) to say that the reasons against Brexit and the campaigning was also misrepresented and continues to be with project fear growing by the day.  Project fear has done as much as anything to hit share prices which ebb and flow on speculation.

On your second point, it's more than an act of faith.  Some see it as an act of necessity.  The status quo was never going to remain the status quo for long.  Europe and EU funding is in major crisis and at the very least we'd have lost the last of our concessions and paid a hell of a lot more if looking at just the financial side of things.  It was never though all about just finances.  If you cannot see where Italy, Hungary and Poland may be heading, if you cannot see the very real potential for the EU to fragment or implode with the growing strength of feeling against the EU's continued federalisation plans, then perhaps asking the question "what do you base that on" says that you haven't opened your eyes as to what's happening elsewhere amongst our European neighbours?  Also it's extremely naive to think that because we voted to leave that this weakens European resolve to stay united on our shared security concerns.  We'd have likely been more at risk had we voted for and taken part in the hapless venture that is the EU joint strike force.  Ask anyone here with experience in logistics and the way that the armed forces work.  The main concern if Russia kicks off is that the EU will fail to unite and will be too busy bickering as to who will lead. NATO exists with or without the Commission.  

Sorry, but I really cannot see that any of your arguments hold up to scrutiny any more than you see that mine do.

[Popsbengo]

VarmLR,  well argued however you do make some mighty assumptions about my personal understanding of the issues.  I'm not one to build a case on a straw man so please don't be assuming I know little to nothing about the state of European politics.  Of course Italy, Hungary and, less so, Poland are in turmoil. So is Greece.  My case for voting Remain is a 'warts and all' recognition of being more influential within the EU club and the short to medium term economic impact that we don't need to take a hit on. For sure there's a LOT wrong with the EU but I still think on balance we're better off in.  I think you over emphasis the "threat" of a federal Europe and just how would the EU force a leading member to adopt the Euro?  Not likely.

With regard to my point about Russian aggression, they (the Russians) thrive on economic and political turmoil, making it more likely that we are faced with an escalation leading to confrontation.  I do hope NATO survives the orange idiot's term.

 

[Popsbengo]

1 minute ago, Gluv said:

But Remain lost , and the government is trying to overturn the democratic vote of the people 😡

I can make sure that passenger window remains down all the way to Eskdale you know ! 😂

Don't worry, I'll wrap up warm 😘    The Government isn't trying to overturn the vote, the House of Commons maybe. I look forward to Ref2  putting it all to bed....     Oh dear, I think I may have pulled the pin.....

[Popsbengo]

2 minutes ago, Gluv said:

Haha, but what would happen if we voted out again ? Best of five ?🤔

Right now, I'd go for that over a no-deal Brexit !    Don't forget we've had two votes (75 & 16) so best of three ??

[Reloader54]

Only one thing is a certainty in this whole clusterspiral staircase, that referendum on 23 june, back in 2016 and everything post that day has done something many suspected,, in political terms the genie is well out of the bottle, and can never be returned.

whichever way this ends, there will be many who will never regain their belief in democracy. and will choose the political wastelands over those who failed them for so long.

to quote an old saying,, "There are those who think their government is looking out for their best interests,,,,, And there are those that think."

[Reloader54]

13 minutes ago, Gluv said:

The police arrest you for thinking these days ....it's all turning very 1984 🙁🇬🇧

Oh I do hope so,,, I'll identify as a Maori [I'm sure I have the required amount of tattoos] and with a little luck they'll send me home

New Zealand looks much better prospect than the chickenchit multicutural hell hole island this place is becoming. and there's no pikeys either,  I'm assured the hunting is as fantastic as the scenery.

[Popsbengo]

1 hour ago, Reloader54 said:

Oh I do hope so,,, I'll identify as a Maori [I'm sure I have the required amount of tattoos] and with a little luck they'll send me home

New Zealand looks much better prospect than the chickenchit multicutural hell hole island this place is becoming. and there's no pikeys either,  I'm assured the hunting is as fantastic as the scenery.

Your hypocrisy is staggering.  Do you think New Zealand would want you?

[Popsbengo]

2 hours ago, Gluv said:

Ah , 1975 , I was a bit young then but didn't we vote into a common market ? Rather different to the totalitarian block we're in now that is trying to rewrite history and destroy our culture 😐

What culture Glov, you're from Cannock 🤣😂

[Re-Pete]

Well if nothing else, my comments have led to a lively debate........😎

Pete

[Reloader54]

19 minutes ago, Popsbengo said:

Your hypocrisy is staggering.  Do you think New Zealand would want you?

of course, they would appreciate my honesty. and my field needs tending. 

[maximus otter]

14 hours ago, Re-Pete said:

Make america great again ???  Nationalism at it's most toxic.........................not wanted here, thanks...........

https://www.indy100.com/article/maga-hat-boys-covington-catholic-harassing-women-washington-nathan-phillips-twitter-video-8739981

Pete

 

A pack of lies, skewered in the honest media:

“...hours of additional video footage exonerated the students, who neither instigated the confrontation nor responded in kind to Phillips’s rude provocations. In reality, the confrontation began when the Hebrew Israelites, an eccentric group of black supremacists, heckled the students as “crackers,” “f-----s,” and “incest kids.” The students responded by reciting school spirit cheers amongst themselves. As the students cheered, Phillips approached one of the teenagers, cameramen in tow, and proceeded to bang a drum mere inches from his face.”

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/covington-kids-can-teach-a-lot-to-rash-adults-in-media-politics-who-condemned-first-got-facts-later

Philips, the Indian self-described “Vietnam war veteran” and “Marine Recon Ranger” was found to be an alcoholic and professional rent-a-mob type. He served only in the Marine Reserve, went AWOL several times, never left the USA and his trade was refrigerator electrician.

maximus otter

[Re-Pete]

Blimey....................so the drummer, a hebrew israelite native american "walt", was heckling the MAGA cap wearing white catholic high school kids, and not the other way round...............?

Pete

[Montey]

I voted leave with my heart but my head said remain I own seven companies and a farm I can sell up and go were ever I want New Zealand  included. I can't believe the dogs dinner May has made of leaving. The EU its doomed long term Germany is only just managing then there's France and the way they have gone so never mind the state of all the miner players who are broke!Uninployment is very high in Europe the lack of border controls are seeing economic migrants flooding in and Crosing to were ever they see fit.who can blame them I'd do the same in thier position.

i employ serval EU citizens they don't have a clue what's going to happen I value them all highly and hope I can carry on employing them.

well why vote out then I hear you say? Because not keeping the EU Citzens all ready here and those that want to come and work would be stupid and I thought we had enough sense to do that.

Would I vote leave again? I don't know!!

 

[Re-Pete]

On the first Question Time with Fiona Bruce presenting, the only panel member who made any sense was a comedian, Nish Kumar, when he said that no matter what either side says, no-one has any idea what will happen if we leave with or without a deal.................

Pete

[Popsbengo]

16 hours ago, maximus otter said:

A pack of lies, skewered in the honest media:

“...hours of additional video footage exonerated the students, who neither instigated the confrontation nor responded in kind to Phillips’s rude provocations. In reality, the confrontation began when the Hebrew Israelites, an eccentric group of black supremacists, heckled the students as “crackers,” “f-----s,” and “incest kids.” The students responded by reciting school spirit cheers amongst themselves. As the students cheered, Phillips approached one of the teenagers, cameramen in tow, and proceeded to bang a drum mere inches from his face.”

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/covington-kids-can-teach-a-lot-to-rash-adults-in-media-politics-who-condemned-first-got-facts-later

Philips, the Indian self-described “Vietnam war veteran” and “Marine Recon Ranger” was found to be an alcoholic and professional rent-a-mob type. He served only in the Marine Reserve, went AWOL several times, never left the USA and his trade was refrigerator electrician.

maximus otter

i'm not sure I'd quote Foxnews as a source!  According to a number of news sources it was the Hebrew Israelites that started the whole thing but, kids being kids, they enthusiastically got stuck in with shouting stuff back. The chap Phillips was trying to defuse in his own way - a cluster-fluk if there ever was one.  The New York Times has a good and fair piece (if your bothered) to check.

Not sure shouting biased shite at each other achieves anything useful apart from raising blood pressure.

[Popsbengo]

43 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

On the first Question Time with Fiona Bruce presenting, the only panel member who made any sense was a comedian, Nish Kumar, when he said that no matter what either side says, no-one has any idea what will happen if we leave with or without a deal.................

Pete

+1👍

[Popsbengo]

1 hour ago, Gluv said:

Looks like all you remainers seem to have a classic case of Stockholm syndrome 🤔 Not my words , straight from wicki....maybe you need psychological help ? 🇬🇧

For other uses, see Stockholm syndrome (disambiguation).

The location where the 1973 Norrmalmstorg robbery took place in Stockholm, Sweden (photographed in 2005)

Stockholm syndrome is a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity.^[1] These alliances, resulting from a bond formed between captor and captives during intimate time spent together, are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims. The FBI's Hostage Barricade Database System and Law Enforcement Bulletinshows that roughly 8% of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome.^[2][3]

This term was first used by foreign media in 1973 as eponym when four hostages were taken during a bank robbery in Stockholm, Sweden. The hostages defended their captors after being released and would not agree to testify in court against them.^[4] Stockholm syndrome is ostensibly paradoxical because the sympathetic sentiments captives feel towards their captors are the opposite of the fear and disdain an onlooker may feel towards the captors.

There are four key components that generally lead to the development of Stockholm syndrome: 

• A hostage's development of positive feelings towards their captor
• No previous hostage-captor relationship
• A refusal by hostages to co-operate with police forces and other government authorities
• A hostage's belief in the humanity of their captor, for the reason that when a victim holds the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be perceived as a threat.^[2]

Stockholm syndrome is considered a "contested illness", due to many law enforcement officers' doubt about the legitimacy of the condition.^[4] Stockholm syndrome has also come to describe the reactions of some abuse victims beyond the context of kidnappings or hostage-taking. Actions and attitudes similar to those suffering from Stockholm syndrome have also been found in victims of sexual abuse, human trafficking, discrimination, terror, and political and religious oppression.^[4]

Gluv🇬🇧

 

 

Contents

 

 

 

Gluv,  what are you drinking/smoking?  Can I have one too?

[Re-Pete]

"Stockholm syndrome is considered a "contested illness", due to many law enforcement officers' doubt about the legitimacy of the condition."            I'll  drink to that.............

So then, Gluv, what's actually gonna happen when we leave, with or without a deal? Give us the benefit of your public bar expertise............

Pete

[Reloader54]

The problem with Brexit is not that there is no consensus - there was never going to be and it is futile to pursue something that cannot be obtained - but that having resolved to settle the matter in a democratic vote, our political establishment is refusing to implement the result. All kinds of hysterical and bogus objections are being raised, but in the end, if we ignore the vested interest arguments of corporate placemen like the odious, shameless and incompetent Philip Hammond, it all comes down collective Stockholm Syndrome. With a few honourable exceptions, our politicians and their cheerleaders are afraid of independence and the responsibility of self-governance because very few of them have ever had to do it in their lifetime and the prospect of stepping out blinking into the sunlight terrifies them so they cling to the skirts of their captor and rage against the electorate for exposing them to the peril of freedom.

The thing is, just because they are weak and craven, pessimistic, unimaginative and backward looking, doesn't mean the rest of us are or that we should be dragged down by inferior minds. It is time for a cleaning of the stables

 

ps,for the record I borrowed this from elsewhere, however I agree 100% with its content.

[Reloader54]

14 minutes ago, Gluv said:

Well you know how we used to be in charge of our own destiny, have our own laws, be in control of our borders? Well we will be again!  . Also like the rest of the world who aren't in the eu we can trade with who we want , just like we used to

I also suspect it's more than just coincidence that all our factories and manufacturing have disappeared during our membership of the eu. It seems rather strange that Germany can always compete and yet we can't 🤔 You might say it's a bit weird that Germany has manufacturing,we have banking and the French have farming? 🤔 Like a deal was done years ago perhaps? 

Im really looking forward to our company's not been sent to Eastern Europe with the aid of eu grants 

Im also looking forward to this country not turning into a third world shithole although we have our work cut out there 

On a whole though I'm prepared to sacrifice everything, I don't care what the cost!

Its quite apparent remainers would still be living in caves because they're too scared and selfish to grab hold of their own destiny. I feel sorry for all the children out there who's parents are trying to sell them out for short term financial gain .

keep listening to your political masters, you know the ones who rape kids, take us into unjust wars for Proffit and fiddle their expenses. They must be telling you the truth right ? Of course 🤔

Oh and don't even get me started on the so-called free market that were suppose to be part of .....the one that costs us billions ? 

Rock soup for me and I will enjoy every mouthful!

We had a vote, we all knew it was in or out , no deal .We voted out , deal with it . Stop trying to subvert democracy. It's not just Anne Soubry who appears to have goose stepping tendencies! 

Rant over

Gluv🇬🇧

hear,hear,, now that should have been on the voting paper. I would have definitely ticked that box.👍

[Re-Pete]

"On a whole though I'm prepared to sacrifice everything, I don't care what the cost! "..........

Well at least, you're one person who's not going to be disappointed, then............

Pete

[Popsbengo]

Glov ol' mate   I fully support your right to sacrifice everything,  I just don't think you have the right to argue others should fall into step with you.  I'm content for you to suck it up (just don't sell your van for food, it's very useful to get to Eskdale with yer mates 😘 ).  The reality is you won't have to sacrifice much either way and so it's just breast beating hollow rhetoric.