Pellet Gun Pete Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Went to an RFD in Derby this afternoon to buy a cheap hmr they were advertising. "Sold it this morning mate" 😞 Had a look at a few others but too expensive at the moment. Bought a cheap shotgun though, and mentioned the shop in Staffordshire who wouldn't sell me the wmr. He told me he wouldn't either, unless I had wmr on a slot. They also had a 177 FAC air rifle, but said as I had a 22 slot, I'd need to change it. Not having much luck, maybe it's time to just throw money at the issue and buy something more expensive 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Remmy308 said: Seeing as your local fet wouldn’t let you have a .223 on your first ticket couldn’t you have a bit of a conversation with them and maybe ask for a .22 hornet as a compromise between the hmr and the 223. itll give you the required distance and stopping power for your fox problem Most FEO`s would see the Hornet the same as .233 and for those who dont reload the Hornet is not the best choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellet Gun Pete Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Remmy308 said: Seeing as your local fet wouldn’t let you have a .223 on your first ticket couldn’t you have a bit of a conversation with them and maybe ask for a .22 hornet as a compromise between the hmr and the 223. itll give you the required distance and stopping power for your fox problem I'm new to it all, and don't want to start moaning right away. I'll give it a few months. I've got another permission I'd like to add (no foxes), so might try adding something else then. I suspect if I get some "proper training" in, that might help. Maybe a weapon awareness thing if they exist, or even a stalk? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remmy308 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 One of our younger syndicate members just had the same problem with his 1st ticket .223 was to large a caliber but the .22 hornet was deemed as suitable,I suppose it’s judt down to your local fet at the end of the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam39 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, Remmy308 said: One of our younger syndicate members just had the same problem with his 1st ticket .223 was to large a caliber but the .22 hornet was deemed as suitable,I suppose it’s judt down to your local fet at the end of the day Can’t see that as the 2 calibers are not exactly miles apart makes no sense. I had a 22rf for several years got a 223 for vermin and the got a 243 for deer no probs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellet Gun Pete Posted January 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 Bought a new "old stock" Savage Arms 17hmr, stainless carbine, in a lovely laminate thumbhole stock. £395, so I'm well happy for now. Picked up a SAK mod for £39, just need to mount a scope and have a bash. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam39 Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Pellet Gun Pete said: Bought a new "old stock" Savage Arms 17hmr, stainless carbine action, in a lovely laminate thumbhole stock. £395, so I'm well happy for now. Picked up a SAK mod for £39, just need to mount a scope and have a bash. Pete A good start. Have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob57 Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Pellet Gun Pete said: Bought a new "old stock" Savage Arms 17hmr, stainless carbine action, in a lovely laminate thumbhole stock. £395, so I'm well happy for now. Picked up a SAK mod for £39, just need to mount a scope and have a bash. Pete Well done mate, sounds good, hopefully it'll be a good accurate rifle for you. Give it a year then 1 for 1 variation on the r/f for .223, let us know how you get on with it on the foxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 A few things raised on this thread have concerned me, namely 1) that the op, when dealing with his FEO was advised of the apparent "need" for mentoring. This is not, nor ever has been a legal requirement. Nor has there been a requirement for "previous experience" when applying for a first FAC in order to grant .223 CF. I know of plenty of shooters who have been granted CF in calibres ranging from .223, .243 and up to .308 on first application as their FEOs were satisfied that the applicant understood the risks, clearly knew how to manage them and that the land was cleared for calibre. These people all had previous experience with shotguns and air rifles but not with RF or CFs. To be fair, a few of those were applying after completing DSC1 and having already been out on things like overseas managed safaris. Some forces like to see some form of training but that is not a requirement either. I guess that it's for each applicant to make a good case and provide sufficient supporting evidence to convince the certifying authority that you would be a safe bet if let loose on your land with a specific CF calibre. This, ultimately, is what it boils down to. You provide that supporting evidence, then your application cannot be unreasonably withheld. Personally, I'd be pushing for an explanation as to why the application was refused as the law requires only that you have good reason, are a suitable person and also states that no application can be unreasonably refused. I guess each force has their own interpretation of what "reasonable refusal" means and are willing to justify such in court. As to calibre, having owned .17hmr, 22LR, 22WMR and .223CF, my own opinion is to avoid the 17hmr but I do see that you've now got one so fingers crossed for you that you don't experience some of the issues it's known for (ammo issues and accuracy in anything other than light breezes make it frustrating for anything but close range work). Had mine 5 years and grew to consider it as a waste of time so sold it, but others have had very different experiences. I'd sooner have a good cheap used 22wmr. They're more than capable of taking a fox cleanly to 100 yds with a well placed shot but most like to be in a little closer, typically 40 to 80 yds. If going much beyond 100 yds, best to avoid RF and push for a .223. It's an extremely versatile calibre for vermin control especially when home loaded for. 22 Hornet would also do as a close/medium range foxing calibre if you were granted it. Good on crow too.  As Bob says, give it a year and re-try for your .223! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellet Gun Pete Posted January 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Well it works 🙂 Mounted my TAC Vector Sentinel 4-16x50 scope on the HMR, and went to the farm to zero it. All in all I'm well happy, started close and ended with zero set to 100 yards. Thought I might get at least a crow after setting it up, but that crack it makes, after 30 rounds of target time, seemed to have scared everything away or into hiding 😉 Now looking for a cheap 22LR, so I can shoot the close range stuff without terrifying everything else. Thanks everyone for your ideas. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlanda Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 10 hours ago, Pellet Gun Pete said: Now looking for a cheap 22LR, so I can shoot the close range stuff without terrifying everything else. Thanks everyone for your ideas. Pete Morning Pete. I have a CZ455 stainless 16" 1 year old and only used a couple of times with night vision . Only thinking of selling because i want to move soon. I am only going to ask for £300 and will post it on here as soon as. Good luck with 17 hmr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellet Gun Pete Posted January 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 Bought a CZ 452 .22lr from a local RFD. It's 20 years old, but in excellent condition. It came with a mod, and a slightly tatty 3-9x42 scope. £149! It shoots fine, but it's long barrel, plus the length of the mod, makes it look like a musket 😉 So I'm going to shorten the barrel to about 15 inches, and swap the scope. Hoping to try for a fox with the hmr one evening next week. I'm getting there slowly. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 Hi Pete , personnely id not use a hmr for fox - sometimes its not humane enough from experience . The 17 bullets are designed for small vermin really . I think Gloucester will not grant a hmr for fox and rightly so . I don't really shoot fox now but honestly id not want to shoot them with anything less than a 22 hornet using a minimum 40 grain bullet . All quarry deserves some respect , this aint a dig , just how i feel . Hope your enjoying your new ventures .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Pellet Gun Pete said: Bought a CZ 452 .22lr from a local RFD. It's 20 years old, but in excellent condition. It came with a mod, and a slightly tatty 3-9x42 scope. £149! It shoots fine, but it's long barrel, plus the length of the mod, makes it look like a musket 😉 So I'm going to shorten the barrel to about 15 inches, and swap the scope. Hoping to try for a fox with the hmr one evening next week. I'm getting there slowly. Pete Having the barrel shortened will cost about as much as you paid for the rifle after it's been proofed so not really worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzarM1 Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 If you intend to keep the rifle and have the skillset to do the work yourself it will not require proofing.. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellet Gun Pete Posted January 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 I have a lathe, I don't see an issue. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 No proof will make it worthless , its illegal to sell an unproofed firearm . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellet Gun Pete Posted January 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 http://jacksonrifles.com/zz-silencers/proofcounsel.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 5 hours ago, Pellet Gun Pete said: http://jacksonrifles.com/zz-silencers/proofcounsel.htm That document is 17 years old and was written by a barrister , not the proof house who are the one`s who prosecute . Ambiguous to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srvet Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 2:33 AM, Pellet Gun Pete said: Bought a CZ 452 .22lr from a local RFD. It's 20 years old, but in excellent condition. It came with a mod, and a slightly tatty 3-9x42 scope. £149! It shoots fine, but it's long barrel, plus the length of the mod, makes it look like a musket 😉 So I'm going to shorten the barrel to about 15 inches, and swap the scope. Hoping to try for a fox with the hmr one evening next week. I'm getting there slowly. Pete +1 on the 17 HMR for fox. It is marginal... might seem like a cannon compared to a 12 ftlbs airgun but it is in truth still feeble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy W Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Moorlander said: That document is 17 years old and was written by a barrister , not the proof house who are the one`s who prosecute . Ambiguous to say the least. Are you saying the Proof House prosecute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 AFAIK the proof house is a private company , anyone should be able to set one up so long as they could show testing was done to a recognised and accepted standard , the same as CE approval testing for all kinds of products. Both UK proof houses seem to be the most evasive organisations around and appear to be a law unto themselves  , the Birmingham website looks like it was put together by a 10 year old and give very little information , I cant even find a website for the London proof house , its as though they dont want anyone to know whats what, no policy of openness with them. There is some proofing information here though. Legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moorlander Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 33 minutes ago, Roy W said: Are you saying the Proof House prosecute? I dont know but I doubt it would help with your FAC renewal if you were found to be flouting any law. From the Birmingham proof web site...   THE WORSHIPFUL COMPANY                                           THE GUARDIANS OF THE OF GUNMAKERS OF LONDON                                        BIRMINGHAM PROOF HOUSE Conversion of Barrels and the Fitting of Muzzle Accessories The British Proof Authority wish to clarify the proof status of small arms converted to accept muzzle attachments and the proof requirements of the attachment. The following advice applies to cartridge operated small arms of all calibres, not including air weapons and their accessories. The Trade and the public are advised that the barrels of small arms fitted with sound moderators, screw in choke tubes, muzzle brakes, etc. require to be proof tested. In addition any barrel of any small arm previously proved but subsequently converted by a manufacturing process, resulting in a reduction in substance or strength, to accept the fitting of sound moderators, screw in choke tubes, muzzle brakes, etc., will require the arms to be reproved. This advice also applies to any alteration to the internal dimensions of the barrel affecting bore size or chamber lengths in excess of permitted tolerances. Muzzle attachments through which any part of the charge would be exploded or discharged form part of the barrel and also require to be proof tested and marked accordingly. The London Proof House                     or                             The Birmingham Proof House 48-50 Commercial Road                                                        Banbury Street London E1 1LP                                                                     Birmingham B5 5RH   October 2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy W Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 The Proof Houses are private companies with one aim, to make money. They would claim kettles needed proofing if they thought they could get away with it. The CPS prosecute proof offences, the Proof Houses would provide an expert witness, and nothing else. The proving of firearms is governed by the Gun Barrel Proof Acts of 1868, 1950 and 1978 (However, note that much of the 1950 Act was repealed in 1996 by SI 1996/1576). Chapter 24 of the following document explains the legalities: https://www.sceguk.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2015/07/Home-Office-Guide-on-Firearms-Licensing-Law.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellet Gun Pete Posted January 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 Blimey, it's probably best I leave it as it is. Nothing worse than "grey areas" in the law. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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