Convergence of tech

[ds1]

Just some musings having ordered a S&B 5-45x56 scope with the new LRR reticle but feel and in many ways hope that it will be the last pure optically non digital enhanced scope that I will buy.

About 10 years ago if you had a S&B 5-25x56 pm2, a Leica LRF 1200 and any form of PDA with a ballistic program and a wind meter you were as flash as Michael Jackson. Now Jako is pushing up daises and times have moved on......sort of.....

I could well  be wrong but get the feeling that we are at the gen1 level of integrating at least some of the tech that we use and now take for granted in more tech advanced things like mobile phones and dslr cameras ( cavet known distance range shooters may well not see the need).

Top end kit like tracking point is restrictively expensive but HUD scopes like Revic and probably the more advanced Steiner mx7 IFS start to combine HUD and onboard ballistic calculators. Other companies like Burris have had laser rangefinders intergrated into the optics for some time ( Swarovski about 25 years ago!) and Sig ABS / BDX kit can “talk” between their laser rangefinders, scopes and Kestrel weather meters. Everything seems very “clunky” and not well intergrated though. The future could be “app” driven. If you look at ballistic programs such as BallisticsARC you can see how well it works with google maps and Weatherflow weather meters. 

If apps could “talk” or “ bridge” to each other at the moment we cannot be far from things like the Labradar app talking to onboard scope ballistic calculators and mobile apps and weather meter apps providing real time data either through a mobile interface or directly into the scope HUD. This as stand alone kit is all available now. The “push” however to develop this tech may not be so much  military based as that kit needs to be hard wired.

Old arguements over things like  reticles should go into the geriatric bin as digital reticles, with one scope offering many choices depending on application should be available. Ultimately you would want a day scope / NV/ thermal intergration and end up with better quality renditions of the X-sights.

Anyone think that the tech we use will take a different approach or direction?

 

[Novice1]

If there is no push from a military perspective, which seems to be the source of many innovations and progression in shooting sports technology, I'd suggest that the target market may be too small for manufacturers to bother with. Some of the technology you refer to, mobile phones and cameras, have huge markets and the r&d budgets to go with them. 

I don't know enough to understand how easily such technology can be applied to other tasks but, putting IP issues aside, if there's a decent level of work involved to adapt it then I can only see things remaining niche and expensive. 

And anyway, where would the fun be in it all 😊

[Ronin]

Hensoldt made a scope several years ago think it was designated ASP that had the ability to enter ballistic data and barometrics to provide firing solution - it was then the most expensive scope ever made.

 

The issue with modern tech is for me - batteries 

 

Without power all is lost

 

Nothing with replace the reliability and fundamental choice of a Mil Mil Scope and sliding log table (Mil-Dot master)

If you keep to one or two cartridges even drops and dope can be memorised ,,,,

 

Basic field craft can establish wind direction, angle and strength

 

 

Personally I think we have gone too far relying on tech,,,,,,

 

 

[Re-Pete]

Ronin + 1...............

Re-Pete

[ds1]

Hi Andy, 

I have often been accused of following the Ned Ludd school of tech and in no way would argue with written and tested drops - I have used that for a long time. On the other hand we can still augment it - more data can be a good or bad thing.

If you look at an app based product like StrelokPro then it easily pairs with a Kestrel or Weatherflow to give real time wind data. Richard Utting did a particularly good review of that.  Leica have done a halfway house job with the 2700b laser - imput ballistic data on a mini sd card and get not only the distance but elevation correction in mils, clicks, moa or whatever that is corrected for temperature, slope etc. Putting the ballistic calculator and laser into the scope on a HUD would probably improve work flow.

It feels a bit stone age though when S&B at the IWA the last few years have their “digital enhanced” scopes that pair to a Vectronix laser to give just the ranged distance in the scope - as pointed out - to what Is the question - you stil needed coms if the laser was being used by a spotter ( as was the intent) so was a dead duck to me.

Batteries - for sports kit, I am not so sure that it is an issue - or use a micro solar panel to recharge on the go ( worked for Casio pro-trek watches). On a side note we have enquiries from  folks that want to do hostile enviroment training. The groups always spec the same  platform for a long - Ar 15/ M4 with an Eotech and they suck for battery life. Ask what buis they want and you get blank stares, they are more interested in having a Surefire 542 weaponslight onboard - more batteries.

Bottom line is that I can shoot 100m groups of around 1/2 moa fairly consistently but hitting a 1 moa target first shot ( no sighted) at any distance out to 800m on different ranges in different temperatures I cannot always do. The tech has helped to improved the percentage though. Improving smoothness and workflow would be good.

Think of it in a different way - when you go to the doctor do you want his/ her or whatever gender expertise to make a stand alone diagnosis or to also augment that experience with a database of many thousands of cases based on symptoms ( databases will move to AI systems to be more predictive).

 

[Scotch_egg]

My personal opinion when it comes to Schmidt and Bender. 

Whay try when the current product line sell itself. Case in point you have ordered an expensive product. They had minimal R&D expenses and will sell a few units. 

 

The military won’t want digital systems that can fail in the field. I’m sure you can imagine teaching a class with the opening address 

“THIS COURSE WILL ENABLE YOU TO UTILISE A SOLELY DIGITAL WEAPON SIGHT IN THE THEATRE OF WAR”

I can hear the resistance to change now. 

Without Government investment nothing that is worth its salt makes it. 

[ds1]

HI Dave,

if you look at March for example they have done very well hitting dedicated niche markets - first bench rest, then f class and as of late ELR ( with the Genesis) with dedicated scopes and reticle.

S&B ...... did really well 25 years ago with the 4-16 pm2 and then the 5-25 pm2. That was the gold standard. That market must be near saturated now plus everyone and his dog has a similar or better product now ( TT, Minox , Steiner, Vortex, Kahles, et al).

The only thing that got me to buy the big Schmidt was the LRR reticle.....and if it doesn’t work for me I have a buyer for the scope so it is a no risk thing.

Back to the tech bit.....Bluetooth is obviously great for sport shooter interfaces and equally sucks for military applications where hard wire is needed and puts a downer on the integration of devices somewhat. Below is a link to the Steiner - it’s all a bit “clunky” though. I got to see it last year at the IWA . They are obviously pushing the military application side too.

https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/optics/steiner-m7xi-ifs-sniper-riflescope/

 

 

[Deserttech Europe]

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[ds1]

Swarovski seem to be moving in this direction too. I remember the 5-25x52 from around 2017. Obviously intended for the hunting market but they could refine it for more target / tactical markets.

 

[Ronin]

I don’t think Swarowski will enter the tactical market - against their “ethics” though I fail to see the difference if they make ranging and binoculars issued to mil units across the globe 

In the days of modern tech and micro systems one would have thought the other makers would have something similar in line to be released or at the very least in R&D 

 

Panacea would be integration with LRF, weather source and on target solution pre dialled by the scope 

 

Though windage may (will) be the factor affecting connection.

 

Have to say I still prefer separate wind , measurement and simple scope 

 

Less to fix  and more dependable 

(in my opinion - which counts for nothing 😃)

 

 

[Popsbengo]

It's going to happen in my opinion because it'll be more profitable to produce simplified optics with digital enhancement. It's also an opportunity to make all of those replacement sales as old tech is superseded. Full integration will follow as the market develops. My bet is in ten years we will think nothing of fully integrated multifunctional sighting systems and some for under £1k !

As far as the argument about the military not wanting tech, that doesn't hold water. What about laser ranging, night vision, GPS, sat phones and radio etc etc. For sure it needs to be reliable but that's not a problem for the aforementioned kit. Not to mention antilock braking and fly by wire controls etc on nearly every new car

I'm all for retaining the skills needed to use "old fashioned" methods just as I was expected to do for ocean navigation (sextant, nautical tables etc). Truth is GPS is so reliable and robust that it doesn't fail anymore than mechanical devices like chronometers and compasses. Old skills wither on the vine from lack of use I'm afraid.

[No i deer]

Electronics are great while there working properly.i have an illuminated dot on my sightron scope which I think is absalutely brilliant idea the trouble is I seem to forget to switch it off and it might have been left on for a week before I realised  . I had a VXR Leupold that switched itself off after a minute or to of no movement. That's a better ideal as long as it does.