Reprofile a barrel?

[Guesty]

I have a Sassen light benchrest profile barrel that I would like reprofiled to Tikka Varmint profile. Can anyone recommend someone to do the job, and also a rough idea of cost?

I understand that there may be some risk to the accuracy so I'm keen to hear anyone's experience of that after reprofiling.

[lapua]

I’ve had it done a couple of times, most decent gunsmiths will do it. All barrels are re-profiled at least once. My current 6xc started life as something much thicker, still shoots ok

[Big Al]

3 hours ago, Guesty said:

I have a Sassen light benchrest profile barrel that I would like reprofiled to Tikka Varmint profile. Can anyone recommend someone to do the job, and also a rough idea of cost?

I understand that there may be some risk to the accuracy so I'm keen to hear anyone's experience of that after reprofiling.

Are you planning to chamber this barrel yourself, I noticed you were looking to bu a blank recently? If so then why not profile it yourself as well?

If your not planning on chambering it then get the person who does to profile it as well for you.

A Tikka Varmint profile is about as easy as they come.

[Guesty]

I'm simply checking out options between buying a new barrel and reprofiling the one I already have. I would be looking for a smith to do all the work. Do you have a rough estimation on price?

[Guesty]

32 minutes ago, lapua said:

I’ve had it done a couple of times, most decent gunsmiths will do it. All barrels are re-profiled at least once. My current 6xc started life as something much thicker, still shoots ok

That is most promising!

Thanks for the info.

[Big Al]

9 minutes ago, Guesty said:

I'm simply checking out options between buying a new barrel and reprofiling the one I already have. I would be looking for a smith to do all the work. Do you have a rough estimation on price?

Sorry I dont know what others would charge for this.

I dont work on customer supplied barrel blanks as I have no way of guaranteeing them. I thought you might be doing the work yourself and I would have been happy to offer some advice.

I profile a lot of barrels to Tikka Varmint profile from blanks like you have there, I have never seen any loss in accuracy over a factory profiled blank but like all things there will be good and bad ways to do it. Im sure if you use someone reputable it will be fine.

[Guesty]

Thanks for the info.

If anyone is happy to reprofile my barrel please do get in touch.

[Re-Pete]

The word on the street is that re-profiling is OK on a cut rifled barrel, but not on a buttoned job. Not absolutely sure why................

Re-Pete

[Big Al]

18 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

The word on the street is that re-profiling is OK on a cut rifled barrel, but not on a buttoned job. Not absolutely sure why................

Re-Pete

I have found with the rifle building business is it has its fair share of silly myths and superstitions.

 

 

 

[baldie]

7 hours ago, Re-Pete said:

The word on the street is that re-profiling is OK on a cut rifled barrel, but not on a buttoned job. Not absolutely sure why................

Re-Pete

Their is more stress imparted to the blank during button rifling Pete. Less in a cut blank.

Both will be stress relieved before profiling.

Profiling is bound to introduce stress of some sort also.

Doesn't particularly matter on a blank.

Not something i'd do on a finished barrel [and won't ]

Despite what you tell the customer about possible accuracy loss, when his barrel goes tits up, its your reputation, and your wallet that has to put it right.

 

[bradders]

2 hours ago, baldie said:

Their is more stress imparted to the blank during button rifling Pete. Less in a cut blank.

Both will be stress relieved before profiling.

Profiling is bound to introduce stress of some sort also.

Doesn't particularly matter on a blank.

Not something i'd do on a finished barrel [and won't ]

Despite what you tell the customer about possible accuracy loss, when his barrel goes tits up, its your reputation, and your wallet that has to put it right.

 

You’re only finishing off a profiling job that was started earlier, so how are you harming it?

when you buy unturned blanks and turn them do you heat treat them?

does anyone? the answer is no

the truth is, there is far too much hullabaloo written about all this

its all cobblers and will continue to be cobblers as long as people continue to propagate these myths

none of it matters

If you heat treat a finished barrel, it’s going to bend...so we had better not even mention the fluting word!

[Guesty]

Well I'm certainly happy to risk it, and state publically here that of accuracy does degrade then that's just my tough luck.

Now, who will do it? And how much will it cost?

[bradders]

1 hour ago, Guesty said:

Well I'm certainly happy to risk it, and state publically here that of accuracy does degrade then that's just my tough luck.

Now, who will do it? And how much will it cost?

Is it on the rifle or off?

[Guesty]

It's on the rifle. I'm based near Banbury (M40 J11) and am happy to travel, say 100 miles, to deliver. 

 

[lapua]

I bought a benchmark barrel from the importer and sent it to dolphin who re-profiled to my own design for me before shipping it onwards to the rifle builder who chambered and fitted the barrel. I cant remember exact cost and it was a few years ago but i think it was between £100 and £150. I had another one shortened and reprofiled by the builder of the original rifle but that was also re-proofed and blasted so i dont know the exact cost, but probably appeared on the bill as a couple of hours.

 

[bradders]

20 minutes ago, Guesty said:

It's on the rifle. I'm based near Banbury (M40 J11) and am happy to travel, say 100 miles, to deliver. 

 

Ok so probably around 3hrs max with removing and refitting, so I would say no more that £150 plus the dreaded proof, which would be no more than £50

As for me, I’m pretty busy at the moment so can’t guarantee I could fit it in

Call SRS in GLOS and see if they can do it for you

[Guesty]

Bradders and Lapua, that's great info and exactly what I was after.

Thanks very much.

[bradders]

If you don’t find anyone local give me a call

I’m not a scaredy-cat

[Guesty]

1 minute ago, bradders said:

If you don’t find anyone local give me a call

I’m not a scaredy-cat

Cheers will do!

[Big Al]

As I said earlier, there are lots of myths propagated within the rifle building business by some, I dont really understand why?

I much prefer facts rather than myths and this question in particular isn't really a hard one to get to the bottom of by looking at the facts.

Once a barrel has been rifled, either cut or buttoned the barrel maker may choose to perform a process they feel will relieve any stresses they feel is now in the blank. From there is is profiled and sent out to the customer. From the same 1.350" diameter blank there will be all types of profiles cut right down to the thinnest sporter. All the profiling is done in a lathe, usually with a travelling support to reduce barrel flex and improve rigidity in the cutting process, after profiling there is no further stress relieving done. 

The barrel then comes to me as say a heavy profile and I then carry on the profiling to whatever I want - how on earth does this differ from the process finishing in the factory? In fact I know that the cuts I take will be a lot smaller and slower than a factory profiling lathe because my machine isn't as rigid as theirs. Ive visited a UK barrel making plant, seen the size/colour of the chips lying in the profiling lathe and so know this for a fact. The only way profiling would be a problem would be if the person didnt know what they were doing during the re-profiling which I alluded to in my first post.

When cutting metal there are basic principles of cutting speeds and feeds as well as the right cutting tool geometry and tool coatings that will ensure the majority of the heat created in the cutting process goes into the chip coming off rather than the workpiece. Add to that the use of flood coolant during the cutting process (be that turning or milling) and the workpiece stays cool throughout the job. We have turning tool and milling cutter technology now that allows us to even cut barrel steel dry without coolant and again the workpiece stays relatively cool, the heat goes into the chips being made not the workpiece. Ive turned barrels dry and they never got close to being as hot as they do when they are fired in a rapid fire benchrest competition on a hot summers day.

Profiling or re-profiling a barrel blank is quite frankly a boring and tediously slow job on a manual lathe the kind that most rifle builders have. Turning long accurate tapers with a good surface finish will be beyond the capability of some and so its not a popular job that they will try to avoid at all costs, I think this could be where the myths come from? Lathes with copy attachments and hydraulic followers make the job easier, this is where the CNC machines come into their own, again most small rifle builders dont have this technology, myself included. I know of at least three other reputable UK rifle builders who are happy to profile and re-profile their barrels, one has been doing this for 25yrs.

When I started building rifles I realised the permutations of barrel profile, caliber and twist rate would mean I would need a lot of barrels if I wanted to be able to turn around jobs quickly without constantly ordering barrels and waiting for them. The answer was to order my initial batches of barrels as blanks, this way I could profile as required, this cost me in time I couldn't charge for but made it possible to hit the ground running at a lesser initial start-up cost.

Even now that Im established with a good stock of barrels I still order a lot of my barrels usually in blank form and then profile them myself, sometimes I also buy heavy benchrest profiles and then re-profile them to the spec I need. I would say in the last 3yrs I have either profiled or re-profiled about half of the approx 140 barrels I have used. There has not been one single barrel that has not lived up to expectation, accuracy has been as good on barrels I have profiled as it has been on barrels I have had supplied ready profiled. I dont do the fluting myself, I send it out to a company I trust and again never has there been a problem with regard to accuracy if you know what your doing.

My rifles hold 4 of the 8 UKBRA long range benchrest records with barrels I profiled myself, I have also profiled barrels for customers who shoot at world championship benchrest level, if re-profiling a barrel hurt accuracy I and many others wouldn't do it.

 

[baldie]

Gents,

           i was talking about a finished barrel, not a blank.

I've reprofiled many blanks to my own spec for the job in hand. Its a pain in the arse, and now I usually order the correct profile, or get someone with the right machine to do it a lot easier than I can, like Paddy.

As Mark says, you aren't going to affect a blank.

Finished barrels are a completely different kettle of fish.

I've given this advice to many people, who, have then gone somewhere else and had the work done. I can recall easily at least half a dozen, whose barrels no longer shot as well as they did, afterwards. They were subsequently re barrelled.

From experience of seeing this, the worst were hammer forged barrels.

On a barrel like this, great stresses are imparted, and i'm not convinced they all disappear when stress relieved. 

Once the barrel is chambered, dropping the profile down to a thin profile, can, and sometimes does, open the bore in places up and down the barrel.

I remember, a few years back, an awful lot of factory guns from a manufacturer, had exactly this problem on fluted lightweight sporters in .243 and .308.

The bores had expanded under the flutes.

My take on it is this. Once a barrel is finished, it should stay that way, or start again. I'm not willing to risk ruining a barrel for the sake of £100 or whatever. I would stand by my work and replace it if necessary. Its bad business for me personally.

If others want to take that risk, then thats also fine.?

 

 

[furrybean]

On 10/18/2018 at 9:55 AM, bradders said:

Ok so probably around 3hrs max with removing and refitting, so I would say no more that £150 plus the dreaded proof, which would be no more than £50

As for me, I’m pretty busy at the moment so can’t guarantee I could fit it in

Call SRS in GLOS and see if they can do it for you

SRS did mine and his work is exceptional 

[lapua]

18 hours ago, furrybean said:

SRS did mine and his work is exceptional 

He certainly doesnt rush things!?