Variation from .17WSM to what? .17HMR? .17 or .22 Hornet?

[chaz]

Hi folks,

I sold my .17WSM some time back, and i'm looking at getting a 1 for 1 variation. I'm just not sure what to get instead. The .17WSM was a nice round, and the rifle itself was the Savage heavy stainless barrel and action, with a nice laminate stock. Albeit i hated the bolt and the fiddly mag. I can only speak about the savage, and speaking of which the accuracy was crap compared to my mate's .17HMR at 100 yards, which i shot back to back.

Anyway, i'm not sure what to get next. I have had a couple of .17 HMR's in the past, but got fed up with wind drift. Perhaps i expected too much from it? I also had a .22 Hornet. But i got rid of that, more so because of the rifle being way too heavy. Then i think a low powered 40 grain out of my .223 would achieve the same as the .22 Hornet??

I've never owned a .17 Hornet, but I've heard good things about them. Does anyone know how the drop and drift compares with the .17HMR?

Some constructive advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

Chaz. 

[David Hancock]

Chaz - I have just picked up a HW66 Jagd-Match in .17 Hornet to replace my .223 as I deliberately wanted an (smaller cal) accurate vermin and fox calibre to shoot from 100 - 300 metres - 150 yard fox.  I have a 6.5Creedmoor for further.  I do not reload.

I sold my .17HMR five years ago due to poor / inconsistent ammunition.  It still continues.

I had a .204 which was supposed to be bluepirnted and shot like a pig - it's a great calibre and a lot of people love them.

My "cheap crappy" Howa 1500 .223 shot lights out everything from 40gn V-Max to 50 gn Sako and 55gn V-Max.  Stunning.

The drop on a .17HMR with a 100 yard zero - to 200 is Circa 4.4in. 

The drop on the .17Hornet with a 200 yard zero - to 300 is Circa 6in with a 20gn Hornady V-Max shooting 3650 ft s.  Check the Hornady website for more.

I will get slightly less than this as the HW has a 18inch barrel.

There is a limited choice of ammunition at the moment - Hornady 20gn V-max and the 15.5gn Eco stuff.  25 rounds is £24.00.

I'm getting 0.6 or 0.7MOA.  There is no recoil.  The suppression with a Wildcat Panther Moderator is significantly less than a .17HMR.  It's a dream to shoot.

If you keep the .223, you will still have a deer legal rifle (unlike the 22 Hornet) and shooting GECO will be cheaper than .17H

Personally, I love the .17H / HW66.  It totally trashes the rationale of a .17HMR and can be reloaded.

[chaz]

Thanks for the info David. I did have a .204 Ruger and it was a really accurate flat shooting rifle. Don't recall why i sold it. Maybe to make way for the .223??

I'm intrigued by the .17H and as i reload it would be even better. Can't believe the HMR ammo is still crap. When i did a back to back with my .17WSM and a mates Annie .17HMR, the HMR grouped superbly straight from the box! The grouping on my WSM was around 1 to 1 1/2moa.

I really liked my .22 Hornet, it was also a HW66, heavy barrel jagdmatch and was very heavy to carry around, hence the selling it.

A nice .17H carry gun would be nice. I'll do some more reading.

Cheers.

[GT3_richy]

Wind is still going to be an issue Chaz, though reloading and using the 25grs or 30s if you can find them will help a bit. I think the main thing is to accept that if conditions are not 'favourable' the 17H's effective range needs to be wound back unless you read wind very well. Otherwise take something else on those days assuming you buy a Hornet.

I never had any issues with HMR ammo personally (most threads I see about the HMR seem to be 50:50 as to those who have had issues and those who haven't, who knows how many of the contributors have actually owned one versus jumping on the hate wagon though - the pictures of squib-related HMR barrel/action 'failures' cant be ignored however ?) Has your mate had any issues with his HMR?

What sort of volume are you likely to shoot a 17H? Using 20gr/25gr Vmax costs me about 35p a round to reload excluding brass, which is limited to either Hornady (cant say I'm impressed) or S&B. If you can get the Kranks 17grs to shoot well you can probably shave 20p off the cost for shorter range stuff. HMR ammo is about 32p a time around my parts so the convenience of buying ammo and using a rim fire might possibly still be attractive, or not.

I flogged my HMR and got a Hornet (22" HW66 JM) as I wanted a bit of extra legs without the additional noise of the 204 or 223 (both obviously considerably louder) which isn't favourable at some places I shoot. I wouldn't have guessed my Panther mod'd 17H to be quieter than the same on my HMR, my barrels 4" longer than David's though and Ive not side by sided 17H and HMR. There's not much between them noise-wise either way I wouldn't think.

Finally, neither of my HW66s have been near perfect, both have/had really excellent triggers though. If I was to buy now I'd order an Anschutz I think. I wouldnt get rid of my 204 or 223s in favour of the hornet however.

Hope this is of some use

[enigma]

Have a savage in 17H and using nosler varmageddons can make a round for under 30p per pop.....stunningly accurate with foxes up to 180 yds and rabbits to 340yds. using strelok helps calculate my windage etc and I love the round.

Anything more than that I use my very capable remmy 700 in 223 or others

I really wouldn't bother with the HMR as there are still issues with the rounds and crack necks...which is why I swapped to 17H in the first place.

People seem to hate the savage and yes its a bit of a marmite looking thing, generally its a tool which I don't particularly like the look of but it gives no feed issues and everyone I know who has one shoot extremely well indeed once you have your load worked out.

[Elliott]

I have a T3 223 Varmint, which shoots 53gr V-Max fantastically, a CZ527 204 Varmint which is awesome with 39gr Blitzkings and a CZ527 22 Hornet that stacks 40gr V-Max. 

My pal has had two 17 Hornets. Lovely calibre, but his have been very finicky. Brass problems etc.

My 22H, however is an absolute doddle. 12.7gr of Lil Gun gives 3,019fps in RWS brass using the 40gr V-Max. I have dialled and shot rabbits out to silly distances in clam weather conditions.

It's a 200 yard fox gun and 300 yard rabbit gun all day long. Cheap as chips and a doddle to reload for. 

[Akeld]

Although I have an HMR, I wouldn't recommend one, they are good rifles but the current quality of ammo just makes it redundant.  I've just bought a 17rem for use with NV.  I'd choose a round you can reload, at least that way you have control of the quality

[chaz]

Thanks folks. I think a down loaded 40 V-Max could achieve the .17 Rem performance so although i love the idea of a .17 Rem, i don't think it's suitable for me.

I did like my .22 Hornet, just a heavy weight rifle. But again, i wonder if a down loaded .223 Rem with a 40 V-Max could achieve the same?

I wish the ammo was ok on the .17HMR as i'd probably settle for that...

Were split necks an issue for accuracy? A squib is obviously a BIG concern. Is that common though?

[phoenix]

Got to agree with Akeld on this.

I had  two 17HMRs, a CZ and a Weihrauch and in both cases ammunition inconsistency spoiled any pleasure gained from shooting these excellent rifles.

From a 5 shot group I'd have 2 in the bull, 1 off to the left by a couple of inches, 1 off to the right by a couple of inches and one about 2 inches high or low

It didn't notice any split necks prior to firing rounds, but saw plenty after firing.  However, there was no relationship between the accuracy of a given round and whether or not it split on firing.

Re squibs - I had one and didn't realise it.  i was very lucky that the bullet had only gone into the barrel a very short distance and prevented the next round from fully chambering, other wise it could have been pretty bad.

I think that was the incident that really made my mind up to get out of 17HMR.

A shame really since it has such great potential.

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[David Hancock]

Re squibs - I had one and didn't realise it.  i was very lucky that the bullet had only gone into the barrel a very short distance and prevented the next round from fully chambering, other wise it could have been pretty bad.

I think that was the incident that really made my mind up to get out of 17HMR.

 

Ditto.  If you discount (broccoli, not bothered as I don't smoke !!!)  the cost differential of .17HMR compared to the fun / benefit / confidence / practicality  my 17H gives me, then .17HMR is a dodo !