Late 1800's cyclist/Postman's pocket dog scarer pistol

[chaz]

Hi folks,

I've found what appears to be a late 1800's blank firing Postmans/Cyclists dog scarer pistol. It's for sale at a small antique shop. It uses what looks like shotgun primers to function. And crikey it was loud! It looks a lovely little antique and is going for cheapish.

I'm trying to find out what i need to look for, to be sure it's original. Can anybody help me with what to look for, and what it's value should be??

He has fired it in front of me and all works fine. Albeit, I wouldn't risk firing the shotgun primers he used. I cocked it, and held the hammer back pulling the trigger and gently relieving the pressure on the trigger. I really like it. And want to buy it. But knowing nothing about it, i also don't want to be ripped off....

I've asked on another shooting forum so i can get as many replies as possible.

I'll try and upload some pictures.  I'd really like some constructive opinions on what it may be worth. Maybe from some antique forum members out there??

I'll try and upload some pictures.

Cheers.

[Leeman]

Chaz,

Can't really help other than I remember reading somewhere years ago about a French pistol called a velo-dog to scare dogs away from the postie, which I guess is what you've got.  Nice nails BTW.

Richard

[Moorlander]

I`d look into the legalities of firing it even as a blank firer , I guess it discharges down the barrel like a "real" pistol?

[Shuggy]

Velo Dog pistols were churned out in the 1000s by loads of Belgium manufacturers in the late 1800s. I’d guess that value is probably £100-200 tops.

Legality wise, it’s perfectly OK to hold this as a ‘curiosity or ornament’ under Section 58(2). Calibre is probably the 5.5mm Velo Dog, which I believe was made by Fiocchi up until a few years ago. Having any ammo though would be decidedly dodgy and would put you at some risk of falling into Section 5. Unless of course you were going to hold it as a ‘heritage pistol’ under Section 7(1) or 7(3).

[chaz]

Thanks for the replies folks. Firstly, i'm glad people seem to like the colour of my nails. I was soo undecided that day, between blue, or red to match my thong...?

As for the "Gun". It was for sale in a "Curiosity" shop. He fired it several times, with what looked like shotgun primers. But crikey was it loud!! He also repeatedly fired it dry numerous times. Which made me squirm quite a bit!... He wanted £100, but said it was "very negotiable". I presume that was due to the small "shooting type" fraternity....

I didn't buy it in the end. Partly due to the following extract from the Firearms Act.                        

Possession of firearm with intent to cause fear of violence.

It is an offence for a person to have in his possession any firearm or imitation firearm with intent—

(a)by means thereof to cause, or

(b)to enable another person by means thereof to cause,

any person to believe that unlawful violence will be used against him or another person.

I kind of regret it as it was in really good condition.... And another forum had members stating it wasn't rare and i should pay no more the £50 for it.  I didn't have the heart to offer such a low price. And the continual dry firing put me off... It was a lovely piece of history though....

 

 

 

 

[VarmLR]

This link below might give an idea of value.  £50 seems a little low given that it's as much of interest to post office interest collectors as it us shooters.  I'd be wary though without first checking  further on the legalities as it's exactly the sort of curio that could easily be adapted to fire live rounds (although I certainly wouldn't want to be behind the trigger in such an event!):

https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/12877527-pistol-velo-dog-manufrance-mignon-cal-6mm-flobert-5-5-bosket-around-1870

 

[Moorlander]

If it is 6mm Flobert it almost certainly will be Sect 5 as ammunition is available Flobert

[chaz]

Thanks both. Just be clear it didn't have a barrel. It was a metal rod, which was concave by around 5mm at the "muzzle" end.

After having a good look at it, i was surprised to see how easy it would be to turn into into a viable firearm. A basic pillar drill could convert it into a non rifled barrel. ?  

Cheers.

[Reloader54]

I'm not a 100% sure but the french velodog pistol was not a blank firing pistol, it actually fired a small round  not far off a 22 lr regards to effectiveness, and it was carried by cyclists in general not limited to posties,  I have seen a few examples modified to blank fire by the barrel made solid and a "percussion cap" replacing the cartridge, it was and indeed still is a grey area regarding legal ownership as laws and circumstances have changed many times  regarding   gun  laws and  the "conversion" back to a lethal firearm  so easily done.  you did well to avoid it,  it would be a shame to lose your fac/sgc over a £30 curio. 

a bit of further info below. 

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/guns/1890s-velodog-pistol-french-cyclists-dog-scarer/