Replacement options for Varget in 6.5x47Lapua 123scenar

[Timbo1963]

Hi Guys

I’m getting near the end of my store of Varget and need to start working up loads to get similar performance from an alternative but unsure what to try first. The powders I’m thinking of are; N140, RS50 or RS52. I heard RL15 can spike easily and as this cartridge does start to go straight to pierced primers I’m reluctant to try it. My  current load is 37.9gr with br4 seated 10thou off land at 2950fps. AI AT 30” barrel.

Any experience would be much appreciated 

Timbo

[Re-Pete]

I used RS 52 and RS60 with 123gn Scenars in my 6.4x47 (8 twist 30" Lothar). MV's around 3000fps. I'm presently using 136gn Scenar "L"'s at MV's around 2900.

The 136's are very accurate with both RS52 and RS 60, but I think 60 has the edge.

What do you mean " as this cartridge does start to go straight to pierced primers "? Have you got a loose firing pin?

I ran the 123 Scenars up to 3100fps using RS52 and KVB-223M primers without any failures. (This was for a 1200yd day at Bisley............not used at any other time).

Re-Pete

 

[Malxwal]

I've run RL15,  RS60 and N140 behind 123 Scenars, but in a 22" barrel.

RL15 was very accurate, and is a big favourite round these parts, available and works behind 130 Bergers and 123 Amax.  

The RS60 was very accurate, but proved to be temperature sensitive.

The N140 didn't quite match the accuracy, but was a lot more stable. Perhaps more detailed load work would get it. I run it behind 123 Amax too.

Just trying RS52 as I use it in my 308, but no findings of yet, other than quite smooth to shoot for relatively good velocities.

[Catch-22]

My previous 6.5x47 with 24" 1-8" twist barrel loved N140 & 123g Scenars.

Load was; 123g Scenars, 38.4gn N140, Morum KVB223m (Magnum primers!).

2930fps, ES-9fps, SD-5, accuracy 0.25-0.3MOA

No pressure signs at 38.4gn, but 38.7gn did start to show some. I found N140 to be consistent & nice to work with. However I do think with N140s lower energy rating, one finds oneself stoking the charge up to hit the magical 2930+ nodes. I do think RS52 would produce a bit more velocity for a bit less pressure. I didn't try RS52 myself as I was deterred due to it being a high energy powder & wasn't sure how drastically it might shorten barrel life. But I understand Re-Pete (above) has had a good experience with it. If you have some N140, give it a go! If you have RS52, give that a go too. See what the rifle likes!

If you're near South Wales, you're welcome to take a 1/3 tub of N140 I have kicking about and give it a go.

[Malxwal]

What sort of jump/jam do folk find best with the Scenars ? I settled, more arbitrarily than anything, on .020", but more experimentation could improve/diminish the size of that single messy hole ?

[Catch-22]

1 hour ago, Malxwal said:

What sort of jump/jam do folk find best with the Scenars ? I settled, more arbitrarily than anything, on .020", but more experimentation could improve/diminish the size of that single messy hole ?

As with all setups, it's quite down to your barrel and how it was chambered. Yours may have a long or short throat and will likely differ from everyone else's.

To start, especially with a new powder/bullet combination, do the OCW load method to settle on the most consistent loads. Don't focus/look for the smallest groups, but look for a node where several different charge weights group in the same-ish area. And use a good chronograph to check velocities are stable & consistent.

Once done, now fine tune your most consistent load by altering seating depth to get the best accuracy from it. First,  find your lands and once done load a 3 or 5 bullets that start from your lands (so touching), then another 3-5 but 10tho off the lands, and another 3-5 20thou off. 

Shoot the above to determine whether your rifle prefers the Scenars to be touching (or even jammed into the lands - but watch out for increased pressure if jamming, so best to reduce the charge a bit) or jumped.

[Malxwal]

39 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

As with all setups, it's quite down to your barrel and how it was chambered. Yours may have a long or short throat and will likely differ from everyone else's.

To start, especially with a new powder/bullet combination, do the OCW load method to settle on the most consistent loads. Don't focus/look for the smallest groups, but look for a node where several different charge weights group in the same-ish area. And use a good chronograph to check velocities are stable & consistent.

Once done, now fine tune your most consistent load by altering seating depth to get the best accuracy from it. First,  find your lands and once done load a 3 or 5 bullets that start from your lands (so touching), then another 3-5 but 10tho off the lands, and another 3-5 20thou off. 

Shoot the above to determine whether your rifle prefers the Scenars to be touching (or even jammed into the lands - but watch out for increased pressure if jamming, so best to reduce the charge a bit) or jumped.

Most helpful as ever, thank you. However, I have done most of that, but not had the time to play with the seating depths. My question was more of a general nature, just to see if there was any consensus of experience ?

[terryh]

Malxwal,

Went thru' similar earlier this year, R15 ran out and had the potential to become sketchy in supply, found a few kg of N140 in the cupboard so worked with this.

Now running 39g of N140 behind the Berger 130g Hybrid Tac,  CCI 450 primers. Had a 'flat spot' in the OCW 39g +/- . Velocity is 2895 ou of the standard rifling 25" barrel. Very consistent.

Will do some playing when opportunity arises with seating depth but results are good enough for my purposes at present i.e. it's not the gun that's misses! :)

Terry

[Malxwal]

I was running 37.3gr N140 behind 123 Scenars, chrono was telling me about 2780, but drops were telling me 2740. I was pretty much the same with 123 Amax. My chamber is such that a 123 sits about .010 off the lands with nigh on .264 length of parallel shank in the neck, not really room for heavier 130s. Perhaps another round of testing, this time with the RS52 see if I can find that higher node.

 

[Timbo1963]

Cheers guys it’s great to get eve tones experiences. 

I think I.m gong to try both N140 and RS52.  Thinking of starting at 37gr and working up on each.  I’ll let you know how I get on.