How to check if land is cleared

[Avian]

How do you check with your local firearms department if land is cleared?

Can one simply phone and they check on their database or does one have to do it in writing?

I have my FAC now cleared for deer and AOLQ on land I have cleared and also on land cleared by the local chief police officer.  If i am invited to shoot on other land how do I check it out, at short noitice.

[Moorlander]

To be honest I`ve yet to meet anyone from firearms admin whos experienced enough to determine if land is safe to use centrefire firearms on , what may get you a quick answer is if you can quote someone who is already cleared to shoot that land with centrefire .

You should get an open ticket after five years / on your first renewal , getting your DSC1 can speed things up.

[Chanonry]

Not sure I really want to ask this, but can't resist...

Do they really do this ?

I don't think they do it up here ? Waste of time, how is ground safe for 222 but not 308 ??

[Rob1562]

If it's during office hours and you have the full address, and owner details  of the land you are invited to shoot on (or O/S grid references etc ) , then a 'phone call to your local licensing office should provide you with details of what calibre the land is cleared to. If it's really short notice and over a weekend then you're out of luck !

Licensing 'round here are very approachable and are happy to take 'phone calls such as this.....can't speak for your's of course but give them a call.

Regards, Rob. 

[snakeman]

Phone your dept. Give your name or ticket number and give the name of the land or farm to which you are invited. I would have no doubt that any of the personnel, apart perhaps from the 'receptionist,' would be able to advise you whether the land is cleared.

Come to think of it though, even then, if she's as knowledgeable as the woman on the reception at my Doctor's surgery, she'd be able to tell you too! .. ?

[Avian]

1 hour ago, Moorlander said:

To be honest I`ve yet to meet anyone from firearms admin whos experienced enough to determine if land is safe to use centrefire firearms on , what may get you a quick answer is if you can quote someone who is already cleared to shoot that land with centrefire .

You should get an open ticket after five years / on your first renewal , getting your DSC1 can speed things up.

I'm not asking for them to clear it.  I want to know if it has already been cleared

I would have through a phone call would have sorted that.

I was told today by Dyfed Powys that I have to send in a letter showing I have permission and a land clearance form.  I explained that I was not asking for it to be cleared only enquiring if it already was and for what calibre .  The lady said I need to send in the documents.  I have followed it up with an email asking it that is their policy as I would have though a simple phone call would save both them and myself time and resources.

 

 

[Moorlander]

2 hours ago, Chanonry said:

Not sure I really want to ask this, but can't resist...

Do they really do this ?

I don't think they do it up here ? Waste of time, how is ground safe for 222 but not 308 ??

Not heard of that one myself , FAC newcomers I`ve known are often restricted to 17HMR and .22LR on private land unless with a mentor and even then .243w is the max centrefire allowed initially with a mentor , saying that I`ve also known a long time SGC holder get all restrictions lifted on his FAC after around a year by doing DSC1 , he`s  also land owner  which I think helped.

[NSAC]

Just to clear up a few ambiguities in the answers above:

The National Firearms Licensing Management System (NFLMS) has several layers to it: Firearms, Shotguns, People and Land. Each cross reference to each other, so  a licence holder has a nominal record, and tabs showing all licences held, firearms possessed (including historic records) land over which the holder has authority (or clubs for target shooters). Land can be searched by address or postcode, and each parcel of land has a tab showing the calibre deemed safe on the land if a check has been made. Land also is searchable for anybody who has or has ever had authority to shoot over it. 

A member of the firearms licensing department or anyone else trained on the system such as some command hub operators and  supervisors can therefore check in a few seconds whether the land has been passed for a particular calibre. 

 

Historically FEOs had various criteria to determine whether the land was suitable for various calibres, but more and more these are seen as a bit of a nonsense, especially given the wide variety of calibres now in use. One Force with which I am familiar only distinguishes between Rimfire and Centrefire if asked to check land by a neighbouring Force. Other forces somehow claim to be able to determine different safety criteria for say centrefire .22 and .30 calibres. The local force I have referred to does not check land for its own applicants, simply because it grants open certificates on first application, stressing that the responsibility for safe shooting lies with the shooter, not the police. The payback is that they will not grant a calibre to any person who cannot demonstrate some form of experience with that or a similar calibre. 

So a quick phone call to the licensing dept in office hours will find whether the land has already had a check carried out if your conditions demand it. If it hasn't been checked, then you'll need to submit a letter of authority and a request to have the land checked. Legally, there is no need to notify the force that you have been given permission if the checks have already been done. 

[Avian]

Dyfed Powys firearms office have now confirm to me that  they will now confirm whether land has been cleared over the phone to certificate holders with a closed certificate.

 

[philpot]

As it happens I am in the same boat as I want to add a .223 to my ticket which only has ,22 rimmy and hmr on it at the moment and my ticket is open. I intend contacting my area licensing office which for North Lincs is in hull (Humberside) and asking if the named farm that I have for my past applications. If not, I assume I either apply to see if that land can be accepted or I go to one of the other farms where I think they have been cleared for centre fire.

So Monday we will find out....

Phil

[gazzarM1]

It is my understanding if you have an open cert it is you the shooter that deems the land safe? Does not the condition read....land where you have lawful authority(permission) to shoot ? Have had an open ticket on multiple calibers for 30 plus years and shot all over the uk and never been questioned....open means open not where a third party (the police) have inspected it otherwise no difference between open and closed....

[One on top of two]

14 minutes ago, gazzarM1 said:

It is my understanding if you have an open cert it is you the shooter that deems the land safe? Does not the condition read....land where you have lawful authority(permission) to shoot ? Have had an open ticket on multiple calibers for 30 plus years and shot all over the uk and never been questioned....open means open not where a third party (the police) have inspected it otherwise no difference between open and closed....

👆
This is the correct answer regarding an open ticket 

[Richiew]

Hi there 

I had a closed license so rang North Yorkshire Feo to check some new land and was asked which force I came under ie Cleveland . Was told to get in touch with my local force to get them to contact him then send info back to me . Bit of a faff on !! But whilst on the phone he said I’ll just check on the computer the farm names and owners only one was cleared for any firearms . His advice was ring up your local force and put a variation form in with a note saying you’d like the open clause adding and also permission forms and a map of the land and boundaries . No cost for this  3 days later I’ve got a new cert with open condition . Very good lads at Northallerton and Cleveland . The risk is all mine now . 
cheers 

[justin credible]

I have just had to renew my fac. I have had an open ticket for years.

I live in Hampshire right on the border with Dorset. Dorset Police are my licensing division however they now send everything firearms related down to Devon and Cornwall Police to deal with.

I submitted the renewal along with the official police shooting permission letter from the landowner where I have permission to shoot over his 170 acres of woodland.

And that is where the fun started🙄

D&C said the land that I had provided had never been cleared and so I had not proved valid reason to possess, I argued that my valid reason to possess was the fact that I had the land and I didn’t require it cleared as I had an open ticket. It batted back and forth like this for a while.

D&C wouldn’t renew without the land being inspected so they batted it to Dorset to inspect. Dorset were reluctant to inspect because it was a waste of their time because I had an open ticket.

It faffed about like this for quite a while until someone more senior at D&C decided that perhaps they should change their renewal process after 20+ years as it might be a good idea to let common sense prevail and grant an open ticket holder their license at renewal without the need to clear land💪

 

[Moorlander]

If you have an open ticket you can shoot anywhere you deem suitable  and that you have permission to shoot on , it sometimes takes a bit of work to get this into an FEO`s head , many are civil servants and dont know their jobs very well.

[Wapinschaw]

On 1/19/2020 at 11:03 AM, Moorlander said:

If you have an open ticket you can shoot anywhere you deem suitable  and that you have permission to shoot on , it sometimes takes a bit of work to get this into an FEO`s head , many are civil servants and dont know their jobs very well.

I think this sums up the situation very well. 

I think it is nonsensical that someone who may or may not have some idea about firearms and ballistics can look at an area of land and declare it is "safe" for a .223 but not a .308. The responsibility of determining the safety of a shot must always rest with the shooter.