Gen 6 /ball powders/ramshot 6.5 creed

[biged85]

Hi Guys,

Been having mixed results with Viht powders recently, they seem to have small margin for error. I fancy trying something else though I am getting bored/frustrated with load development.

I am considering trying Ramshot Hunter in my 6.5 creedmoor with 142gr SMK's or maybe 136L Scenars

My first questions is, any issues/ comments with this powder choice? (I can readily get this powder and there is load data for the 142 SMK's)

Secondly, I use a Lyman Gen 6 and was curious about anyone's experience with dispensing ball powders like Ramshot 

On a side note, my rifle shoots 123gr and 136L Scenars incredibly well any particular powder recommendations other than Viht?

 

Many Thanks in advance

 

Ed

[VarmLR]

Can you get RS62 locally?  If so, it is a very good choice for the bullet weights you mention and cheaper than Ramshot powders (at least in my neck of the woods!).  Less temp sensitive than Viht, good velocities too.  You may find that spherical Ramshot powders do not meter well in automatic dispensers.  I use the same one and RS meters well.  The only thing about RS62 I dislike is the uneven extruded grain size.  You get a fair few long lumps in there which can cause the odd issue with dispensing but generally, it meters ok (at least in mine fitted with the Shooting Shed "thingy").

[biged85]

10 minutes ago, VarmLR said:

Can you get RS62 locally?  If so, it is a very good choice for the bullet weights you mention and cheaper than Ramshot powders (at least in my neck of the woods!).  Less temp sensitive than Viht, good velocities too.  You may find that spherical Ramshot powders do not meter well in automatic dispensers.  I use the same one and RS meters well.  The only thing about RS62 I dislike is the uneven extruded grain size.  You get a fair few long lumps in there which can cause the odd issue with dispensing but generally, it meters ok (at least in mine fitted with the Shooting Shed "thingy").

Hi VarmLR,

Unfortunately I cannot get RS62 locally though I could just buy a few containers and hope for the best, from research it seems to perform well for most people.

Does it work for 123gr to 147gr projectiles?

ATB

 

Ed

[Catch-22]

I use Ramshot Magnum. I've tried it in the Chargemaster Lite (basically the same thing as the Lyman G6) and whilst it metres really well, the little spherical balls of powder will bounce into and out of the pan. They're like little bouncy balls! 

Either find a taller sided pan to contain the powder as it's despensed (e.g. a shot measure used by bartenders...though you'll need to determine the best height from pan base to spout) or place a scoop of powder into the pan first, then use the G6 to essentially measure up to weight, which I've found dampens the rest of the powder being thrown. 

Personally though, I think the more standard auto measures are best used with extruded stick powders. By all accounts the Autotrickler and Prometheus are much better with ball powders, but their price tags are hefty. Maybe Father Christmas could come early this year?!

[VarmLR]

5 hours ago, biged85 said:

Hi VarmLR,

Unfortunately I cannot get RS62 locally though I could just buy a few containers and hope for the best, from research it seems to perform well for most people.

Does it work for 123gr to 147gr projectiles?

ATB

 

Ed

I use it with 123 to 140gr bullets and it will also be suitable for 147gr too.  There may be better suited powders for 123gr but it will give respectable velocities and I have got some decent precision loads with that combo.

[biged85]

13 hours ago, VarmLR said:

I use it with 123 to 140gr bullets and it will also be suitable for 147gr too.  There may be better suited powders for 123gr but it will give respectable velocities and I have got some decent precision loads with that combo.

Hi VarmLR,

Many thanks for your help with this, I shall pick some RS62 up. Could you point me in the direction of some load data for 123gr Scenars and circa 140gr projectiles? maybe a starting point?

I use hornady brass with CCI BR2's for reference. 

I have got some 123gr scenars, 136L Scenars and 142gr SMK's to try oh and some 140gr Nosler RDF's though I may not bother with these. 

ATB

Ed

[VarmLR]

I would be hesitant to publish all the data I have for the 123gr  Scenars as my development was for SR brass (lapua) and my top loads would likely be over pressure, even dangerous to use for standard LR brass loads.

However, I know from comparisons with both QL predictions and with LR load comparisons that my loads would need to be reduced by at least 1gr and up to 1.6gr (depending on load/bullet) at the top end for the velocities to be replicated with LR brass.  Be warned.

For the 123gr Scenars, you should be safe to start at around 40gr RS62 (which based on a 24 inch barrel) using LR brass and BR2s which might give you around 2500fps and work a load up from there by first loading a pressure test ladder of one round per interval to look for pressure signs then backing off a sensible amount when you get them.  I am guessing that you'll find a suitable load at between 43.5 and 44.5gr which will be towards the upper end and should be around the 2900fps or greater mark.

My top load was 45.4gr for no obvious pressure signs and an MV of 2836fps but bear in mind this was with SR brass and I would not recommend using that load with LR brass as it appears to be over the max recommended for normal LR brass using similar burn rate powders (eg IMR 4451 Enduron and H4350).  I have not pushed them further because until I switch back to LR brass, the charge needed (even in LR brass) makes it a less economical load compared with similar ballistics from lesser charges and velocities using the 139 Scenar.

For 139gr projectiles you should be safe starting at around 39gr and working a load up to 42.5gr which should yield around 2800fps for a 139grain target bullet and keep within sensible pressures with the usual caveats applying (ie you first load a pressure test ladder to ensure that you are happy with pressures).  If in doubt, contact RS who will run a QL prediction for you.

The data that they provided for me based on LR brass; RS62; 1/8 twist 24 inch barrel; 71.63mm COL; 20 degrees C was as follows:

139gr:  start:   nominal 41gr/2596fps;  max 43.5/2746 fps.  In reality using SR brass I was achieving much less velocity and for 44gr, achieving 2700fps so within the velocity that they stated as at the upper end of their LR recommended load of 43.5 but well within recommended max SAAMI pressures (In fact it correlated with a predicted MV of 2696fps for a load of  42.6gr RS62 in LR brass, some 1.4 grains under actual findings using SR loads).  For 140gr SST bullets, nominal starting load was 40gr and recommended upper load was 42.4gr, again based on the same barrel and LR brass using a col of 72.12mm.  40gr/2560fps predicted and upper load of 42.4 was 2709.

In SR brass I was achieving less loading up to 43.6gr for 2614fps for no pressure signs suggesting that more than a grain and perhaps as much as 1.5 to 1.6gr more was needed to match LR pressure/velocity but that was into compressed loads so I left well alone.  Again please bear in mind that this was for SR brass.  I keep repeating this because some people may jump in at the end and think that's ok to load for their standard LR brass.  It is not and could well be into dangerous territory so leave well alone or back off considerably.

[biged85]

1 hour ago, VarmLR said:

I would be hesitant to publish all the data I have for the 123gr  Scenars as my development was for SR brass (lapua) and my top loads would likely be over pressure, even dangerous to use for standard LR brass loads.

However, I know from comparisons with both QL predictions and with LR load comparisons that my loads would need to be reduced by at least 1gr and up to 1.6gr (depending on load/bullet) at the top end for the velocities to be replicated with LR brass.  Be warned.

For the 123gr Scenars, you should be safe to start at around 40gr RS62 (which based on a 24 inch barrel) using LR brass and BR2s which might give you around 2500fps and work a load up from there by first loading a pressure test ladder of one round per interval to look for pressure signs then backing off a sensible amount when you get them.  I am guessing that you'll find a suitable load at between 43.5 and 44.5gr which will be towards the upper end and should be around the 2900fps or greater mark.

My top load was 45.4gr for no obvious pressure signs and an MV of 2836fps but bear in mind this was with SR brass and I would not recommend using that load with LR brass as it appears to be over the max recommended for normal LR brass using similar burn rate powders (eg IMR 4451 Enduron and H4350).  I have not pushed them further because until I switch back to LR brass, the charge needed (even in LR brass) makes it a less economical load compared with similar ballistics from lesser charges and velocities using the 139 Scenar.

For 139gr projectiles you should be safe starting at around 39gr and working a load up to 42.5gr which should yield around 2800fps for a 139grain target bullet and keep within sensible pressures with the usual caveats applying (ie you first load a pressure test ladder to ensure that you are happy with pressures).  If in doubt, contact RS who will run a QL prediction for you.

The data that they provided for me based on LR brass; RS62; 1/8 twist 24 inch barrel; 71.63mm COL; 20 degrees C was as follows:

139gr:  start:   nominal 41gr/2596fps;  max 43.5/2746 fps.  In reality using SR brass I was achieving much less velocity and for 44gr, achieving 2700fps so within the velocity that they stated as at the upper end of their LR recommended load of 43.5 but well within recommended max SAAMI pressures (In fact it correlated with a predicted MV of 2696fps for a load of  42.6gr RS62 in LR brass, some 1.4 grains under actual findings using SR loads).  For 140gr SST bullets, nominal starting load was 40gr and recommended upper load was 42.4gr, again based on the same barrel and LR brass using a col of 72.12mm.  40gr/2560fps predicted and upper load of 42.4 was 2709.

In SR brass I was achieving less loading up to 43.6gr for 2614fps for no pressure signs suggesting that more than a grain and perhaps as much as 1.5 to 1.6gr more was needed to match LR pressure/velocity but that was into compressed loads so I left well alone.  Again please bear in mind that this was for SR brass.  I keep repeating this because some people may jump in at the end and think that's ok to load for their standard LR brass.  It is not and could well be into dangerous territory so leave well alone or back off considerably.

This is great, I heed your warnings I always start low and run a ladder test and never jump in the deep end.

i didn't realise you could contact RS for a QL prediction, is there a specific email to use?

Sorry for all the questions! Seeing as I have some 142SMK's to try I suppose it is worth asking them for a QL prediction. 

I really appreciate the time you have spent typing all that information for me and others to read.

Many Thanks

Ed 

[VarmLR]

If you look o their website, they have an email address you can use to request load data...helpful guys.

[biged85]

On 5/30/2018 at 7:43 PM, VarmLR said:

If you look o their website, they have an email address you can use to request load data...helpful guys.

Hey VarmLR

Picked up some RS62 and also emailed reload swiss. They kindly sent me the quickload data. I best getting loading!

Atn

Ed

[VarmLR]

sorted ?