ruger7717 Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 Evening all Chris Stevenson agreed to let me share the latest updates regarding the consultation Dear member, Many of you will be aware that the ‘Violet Crime Strategy’ was discussed in Parliament yesterday, for many hours. Perhaps not surprisingly, firearms only had a brief mention, around 14:32 onwards. Ben Wallace MP: “As I have said, we will introduce legislation to strengthen our response to violent crime. That will include the introduction of new measures such as restrictions on buying and carrying knives and corrosive substances; and banning certain firearms. An offensive weapons Bill will be introduced into the Commons or the Lords in the next few weeks.” https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/ed623c7b-b712-4eb8-b3c8-29937c24bcc1?in=14:32:00&out=14:33:00 https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-05-22/debates/A0C772F8-74FE-4FF3-9910-961C42A0FB99/SeriousViolenceStrategy I should point out that the results of last Octobers consultation have still not been published, despite this the government is pressing ahead regardless, or so it would seem. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/offensive-and-dangerous-weapons-new-legislation When the bill is presented to parliament there will hopefully be the opportunity for it to be debated, and this is where the shooting community comes in. We need everyone to write to their MP, alert them to our concerns, and ultimately try and convince them that an outright ban is not the way forward. If we don’t write to our MPs then it’ll be all too easy for them to just roll over and accept the bill in its current form. I have attached three documents, one is a template letter for your MP, this we hope outlines our case. One is an assessment of the Home Office so called ‘evidence’. The other is a position statement, this contains a lot more detail, for example why the consultation is fundamentally flawed, the alternatives to a ban, and a concluding statement which makes it clear that we will pursue legal avenues to prevent the implementation of such legislation. Please add your details to the letter, make it your own, and send and three to your MP. How to find your MP? Put your postcode into this search box: https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/ Most MPs can be emailed. If this bill is going to be introduced within the next few weeks then we really need to get our arses into gear and get these letters set out ASAP, like NOW. No excuses, if you are a member and actually want to be part of this sport then you really MUST write, otherwise we’ve all failed. We’ve got over 400 members spread all over the UK, if other clubs follow suit then we might stand a chance of getting our message across. In addition to the above, the club will be submitting evidence to the Home Affairs Committee. “The Committee has formally agreed to hold an inquiry into Serious Violence which as part of this will consider gun crime. There will be a call for written evidence announced for this inquiry in the coming weeks. We would welcome you to submit written evidence outlining the problem as you have described below with the Offensive Weapons Bill and the limitations it would impose on Target Rifles. By doing so, it could feed into our inquiry and eventually the report that the Committee would then put to the Government.” So for now at least, get posting letters or emailing your MP! What if you don’t shoot 50cal and don’t care? Wake up, your HME rifle will be next. What if you’ve previously written to your MP? He/She will have forgotten all about your letter, so please do it again now! This needs to be fresh in their minds. In order that we can assess how effective this campaign is, would you please drop me a very brief line to advise which MP (name and constituency) you have written to, and the date your letter or email was sent, and update me once again if and when you receive a response. Many thanks, Chris Stevenson Chairman, FCSA (UK) www.fcsa.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 This is definitely for all of us to pursue. I am an FCSA member but only shoot 223, 260, 6mm and 338 LM.......they will come after us a bite at a time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanonry Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 I can't be bothered to wade through all that drivel to try and work out what you are talking about. If that's the Chairman whipping up a frenzy, you have had it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 Chanonry...your response is a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, DaveT said: Chanonry...your response is a disgrace. He is entitled to his opinion just like me, you or anyone else! The whole "They'll be after your HME next" scaremongering line is exactly that.....scaremongering, and is reminiscent of the whole Snowdrop/Seb Coe episode and unhelpful and unnecessary, particularly as nothing else is within the scope if any further legislation.....and if and when these bans go through, do you really think shooters will have the clout to prevent further bans? Maybe this really is the "thin end of the wedge, "tip of the iceberg" "writing on the wall", "final nail in the coffin" (insert other fear inducing catchphrase) Meetings have been going on with the representative parties and the HO and there may have been some movement, but instead of waiting for hard facts, it's always best to jump to conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 Or constructively try to do something to oppose a likely ban as Chris and the FCSA are doing rather than criticise or undermine pro-active efforts to protect our legal / legitimate sport. You are right ....everyone is entitled to their opinion.......in my naeivity I was hoping that shooting would find supporters in its own ranks....silly me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruger7717 Posted May 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 Unfortunately not all are privy as to what the NRA, BASC, NGO and others are doing to counter this part of the consultation. Im sure 95% of firearms holders in this country have no clue what so ever, as to what is being discussed between these orginizations and the HO. And that's enough to make me a tad jittery about the whole god damn mess. I never posted this to stir up a hornets nest, it was to inform the members of the forum what we are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, ruger7717 said: Unfortunately not all are privy as to what the NRA, BASC, NGO and others are doing to counter this part of the consultation. Im sure 95% of firearms holders in this country have no clue what so ever, as to what is being discussed between these orginizations and the HO. And that's enough to make me a tad jittery about the whole god damn mess. I never posted this to stir up a hornets nest, it was to inform the members of the forum what we are doing. I had my RFD renewal last week and I mentioned these potential bans to my FEO he was completely unaware of the new proposed legislation and was surprised when I said they were talking about banning 50s and the other daft plinky plonky rifles! figure that one out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 They will be on about banning cork and spud guns for long the silly qunts. What a bunch of numpties.these are supposed to be responsible people who run the country.absalute idiots.....! There's only one thing worse than a dogooder.... 2 bloody dogooders grrrrrrrrrrrrr They make my pee boil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanonry Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 9 hours ago, DaveT said: Chanonry...your response is a disgrace. Really, you should have seen the drafts I deleted. My reply is concise and makes a valid point. Unlike the op which was impossible to work out what I was supposed to be objecting to without wading through a post and 3 links. As regards my concise points: Point 1. The post and the associated links make it hard for the target audience to understand the key issues and recent developments. As an attempt to communicate an issue and engender support it is a dismal failure. My response is likely to reflect what the intended audience thought and did - i.e nowt. Point 2. If you cannot communicate well enough to engender action from the broad shooting community you are indeed screwed. You may not like to hear it but that's your problem not mine. If you did not like my response take it as an unsubtle hint to get off your arse fix the issue. Easier for you to just diss me though eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 I personally think to call someone a disgrace is actually a disgrace in its own right and sums up what I think is tantamount to coercion by bullying and haranguing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanonry Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 Well, sadly there are way more comments about my post and only a couple reacting to the FCSA update which kind of support my point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted May 25, 2018 Report Share Posted May 25, 2018 these idiots that are trying too ruin our sport need to visits some shoots up and down the country and see the enjoyment being had by us all before they go banning these rifles.there is no reason what so ever for any need too ban these rifles.its bull poo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No i deer Posted May 26, 2018 Report Share Posted May 26, 2018 Oppressed is probaly the word that covers this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris101 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 Apologies to those that find the content of an email aimed at FCSA club members a little too difficult to understand, to be fair it was part of a long ongoing communiqué to our members. I will simplify. 1.Ben Wallace MP has stated: “...we will introduce legislation to strengthen our response to violent crime. That will include ...... banning certain firearms" 2.We need everyone to write to their MP, alert them to our concerns, and ultimately try and convince them that an outright ban is not the way forward. (we have proposed alternatives) 3.If we don’t write to our MPs then it’ll be all too easy for them to just roll over and accept the bill in its current form. (most MPs are not interested, many don't like firearms) We are trying to do SOMETHING. I don't see too many others doing ANYTHING. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villadave59 Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 3 hours ago, chris101 said: Apologies to those that find the content of an email aimed at FCSA club members a little too difficult to understand, to be fair it was part of a long ongoing communiqué to our members. I will simplify. 1.Ben Wallace MP has stated: “...we will introduce legislation to strengthen our response to violent crime. That will include ...... banning certain firearms" 2.We need everyone to write to their MP, alert them to our concerns, and ultimately try and convince them that an outright ban is not the way forward. (we have proposed alternatives) 3.If we don’t write to our MPs then it’ll be all too easy for them to just roll over and accept the bill in its current form. (most MPs are not interested, many don't like firearms) We are trying to do SOMETHING. I don't see too many others doing ANYTHING. Thanks. Hi Chris,thanks for the clarification on the key points, I think it is very important to simplify the key points and perhaps publish on here a template of a letter which most can follow ,I'm no stranger to this having lost C/F self loading rifles in 87,and hand guns in 97,,including 40 plus handguns as an RFD at the time ,the ban on SLR affected a relative few compared to other disciplines,and as such people not affected by proposed legislation needed to be convinced to lobby/write ,the only way to achieve that is to convince them it has to be a united front in a calm way as most people will do most things if they are asked and sweet nothing if told! The hangun ban affected 75,000 shooters so lobbying for that was intense another thing we did back then was to lobby Lords who are sympathetic to shooting generally ,doing this as early as possible is important as once through parliament it will then go to the House of Lords , anyway I wrote to my mp back in January my response attached,he is Bob sealy mp for IOW and is army captain who served in both Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, i was disappointed with the response as it side stepped my argument which centred around legitimate sporting use of 50cal rifles ,sorry I couldn't be more help Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanonry Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 16 hours ago, chris101 said: Apologies to those that find the content of an email aimed at FCSA club members a little too difficult to understand, to be fair it was part of a long ongoing communiqué to our members. I will simplify. 1.Ben Wallace MP has stated: “...we will introduce legislation to strengthen our response to violent crime. That will include ...... banning certain firearms" 2.We need everyone to write to their MP, alert them to our concerns, and ultimately try and convince them that an outright ban is not the way forward. (we have proposed alternatives) 3.If we don’t write to our MPs then it’ll be all too easy for them to just roll over and accept the bill in its current form. (most MPs are not interested, many don't like firearms) We are trying to do SOMETHING. I don't see too many others doing ANYTHING. Thanks. Thanks for this. This "response to crime" => "ban firearms" thing irritates me as there is no correlation never mind causation between legal firearms ownership and crime. So this is bogus. Who knew. I will pull some stats together and lob it at the MP but Ben Wallace MP does not look like a man open to argument, more likely open to self advancement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanonry Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Some stats if you are interested. Not what I was looking for but... link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanonry Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Here is the National Crime Agencies view - link I think I will ask the Minister for his statistics on the use of firearms stolen from the UK populace in criminal events as I don't seem to be able to find any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webby Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 There are a few interesting bits in there: A lot of crime still using handguns. Showing that ban was totally ineffective. Zero policemen killed using firearms. However as you say, stats for crimes committed with firearms stolen from license holders would be interesting and with the current proposals for further bans would be very useful if as I suspect the figure is very low or even zero. This info must be available! I too received a reply from the House of Commons which totally avoided my arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villadave59 Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 I feel that the decision to legislate will get backing ,and your right when you suggest some sought of alternative to an outright ban,centred around security concerns (which is totally unfounded) this should centre perhaps around the compulsory separate storage of the bolt completely away from rest firearms storage and shooting kit. If you can identify friendly mp/ lord it gives them something to suggest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruger7717 Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 banning 50s and the other daft plinky plonky rifles! So Bradders…...do you consider the .50s, MARS & Lever release amongst others daft 'plinky plonky rifles'???.....if so!..your comment boils my piss!! AH I forgot if its not built on a AR platform, then everything else is not worth fighting for! Or are you just that bitter against the MARS & Lever release?...Because YOU never came up with the concept?? I bet you would be voicing your concern if you had! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, ruger7717 said: banning 50s and the other daft plinky plonky rifles! So Bradders…...do you consider the .50s, MARS & Lever release amongst others daft 'plinky plonky rifles'???.....if so!..your comment boils my piss!! AH I forgot if its not built on a AR platform, then everything else is not worth fighting for! Or are you just that bitter against the MARS & Lever release?...Because YOU never came up with the concept?? I bet you would be voicing your concern if you had! They're plinky plonky because they're crap. i've yet to see a target big enough for them to do their levels of inaccuracy some justice, but if people want to part with their wonga on something that makes them shoot and miss even faster then that's fine with me That said, there's nothing wrong with the SGC 9mm....but having worked on a few I can assure you that I won't put into print what I think about the internals....so let your piss boil away until it's super-heated steam. you're not bullying me as I am entitled to say whatever the hell I like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruger7717 Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Bullying??...with regards to inaccuracy what are we talking about?.The .50s or the MARS or the lever-release? If people want to plink away at targets with their chosen rifles well good for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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