6.5 re-barrel options

[Malxwal]

Perhaps looking to rebarrel my stalking rifle into a 6.5, so that it is still portable enough for days on the hill, but capable of the local gong bashing and target comps.

I already own 6.5x47, and love the calibre. 

What I'm intrigued is to find out peoples opinions on Creedmoor v 47, and more importantly, barrel make, profiles etc.

Fire away...

[stephentri]

I am looking at the sassan R2 light vermin profile for my 6.5x55 

[jcampbellsmith]

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/03/23/ussocom-adopts-6-5-cm/ Regards JCS

[Malxwal]

Current 47 is a 22" Sassen Remington Varmint profile. Just a wee bit chunky for the full day chasing hinds.

Yes JCS, I've seen this. You do have to wonder if at some point, as 47's get shot out, how many will re-barrel to CM.

 

[Catch-22]

Personally I wouldn't bother.  You've already got dies, brass and powder setup for 6.5x47. You'll need to factor whether it's worth buying new brass, powder, dies and the time/powder/bullets spent developing new loads just to use a cartridge so similar to what you already have. 

But as always, for most people shooting is a sport of trying new things, so if you just fancy a change, something new, then enjoy! 

[Big Al]

Because we already have 6.5x47 Lapua I personally just can't get excited about 6.5 Creedmoor.

By all means change for changing sake but as Catch-22 says, you already have the reloading gear for 6.5x47 and in the real world 6.5 Creedmoor shows no real improvements over the 47.

[Malxwal]

The only reason I ask about the Creed thing is in case my current 47 sold with dies and brass etc. Ideally the dies and brass would stay with me and I'd stick with 47.

Barrels: experiences good or bad. rifling, fancy 5R stuff ? Smiths I think I have a good idea of.

[Vortex]

More are moving over to the creed with the option of the heavier bullets than the 47 can handle to buck the wind at long range. 

I went down the creedmoor rout and haven’t looked back.  With a moderator on mine running 123gr or 139gr which group really well, the recoil is nothing at all.

the 123gr are doing well out to 1000 at the moment but I’m switching to hevier when I run out as they group consistently better.

you might be struggling if you want to push heavier bullets to those ranges with a 47.

[Malxwal]

Two pals running 47s running 140gr Berger Hybrids / H4350, one at about 2850, but they are longer barrels with 8 twist.

[Big Al]

29 minutes ago, Vortex said:

you might be struggling if you want to push heavier bullets to those ranges with a 47.

The 6.5x47 is highly competitive at 1000yds running 140gr bullets around 2800fps or so.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence yet to suggest a Creedmoor has the inherent accuracy that a 6.5x47 has demonstrated the world over. There are some cases that just do it better than others, 6PPC is one example in its respective field, 6.5x47 Lapua could easily be another. At best the Creed will give an extra 100fps and in the real world that matters very little and even less so if its not sent with the precision we know the 47 can send them.

[Catch-22]

Interesting thread where both Eric Cortina (world class F class shooter) and our own Laurie Holland both make the case that going heavy isn't necessarily better.

In Laurie's analysis, there's basically no advantage moving from 123g to heavier bullets all the way out to 1000m. The only advantage is if using the 140g Berger Hybrid, then you'll see some benefits. But be prepared to dig deep into your wallet buying them!

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/6-5x47l-123-grainers-vs-139s-at-1000.3844209/

[Big Al]

1 hour ago, Malxwal said:

The only reason I ask about the Creed thing is in case my current 47 sold with dies and brass etc. Ideally the dies and brass would stay with me and I'd stick with 47.

Barrels: experiences good or bad. rifling, fancy 5R stuff ? Smiths I think I have a good idea of.

You wont go wrong with a Bartlein, I would also say Krieger would be a safe bet as well.

As for rifling types, Im not sure it really matters and much of the 5R stuff falls into the category of hype. I order my Bartlein's with 4 grooves as I prefer working with them and they seem to break records just as well as any other

[terryh]

‘5R stuff falls into the category of hype’,

hum interesting comment. Some very experiance longer term competitors, gunsmiths etc. Might disagree with you eg  http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/08/whidden-on-winning-at-long-range-part-2-the-cartridge/

personally have found the canted rifling has performed  better or should I say not let me down when shooting competitions that required reasonably high round count etc., something probably not encountered in BR? in saying that have also had good results with standard rifling (but then again I’m  not trying to ‘diss’ something for whatever reason ? ).

re. OP , do not think anything you miss will be down to either of these cartridges, I’ve run a 47 for over 10 years and not felt it lacked as a ‘normal’ 6.5.

brgds T

 

[bradders]

20 minutes ago, terryh said:

‘5R stuff falls into the category of hype’,

hum interesting comment. Some very experiance longer term competitors, gunsmiths etc. Might disagree with you eg  http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/08/whidden-on-winning-at-long-range-part-2-the-cartridge/

personally have found the canted rifling has performed  better or should I say not let me down when shooting competitions that required reasonably high round count etc., something probably not encountered in BR? in saying that have also had good results with standard rifling (but then again I’m  not trying to ‘diss’ something for whatever reason ? ).

re. OP , do not think anything you miss will be down to either of these cartridges, I’ve run a 47 for over 10 years and not felt it lacked as a ‘normal’ 6.5.

brgds T

 

It's both telling and interesting that most of his shots are in the X-ring, it where they are meant to be

Accuracy and skill over flukiness wins every time ?

[baldie]

You need to decide what bullet weight you wish to shoot.

The 47 was never designed shoot 140 grain bullets....it doesn't have the engine room for them.

Yes, it will do it, and do it accurately. What it won't do, is shove that 140 at 3000 fps. That is the magic number, and anyone with a smidgen of experience will tell you the same.

The Creedmoor will.

I started building creedmoors when the cartridge very first appeared, just over 8 years ago, most probarbly, the first in the UK. Its an excellent cartridge, that is every bit as accurate as the 47.

I have found, again, with experience, that the 47 can be loaded with dog s**t, and it will shoot well. Its just one of those lucky cartridges. 

The creed tends to need normal load development.

I tend to agree with Laurie on the weight issue. i have always favoured 123 grain bullets in both cartridges.

Speed keeps a bullet out of the wind....a few magic numbers on the latest carlos fandango bullets....doesn't.?

Personally, if you already have the dies, I wouldn't change. However, I would treat yourself to some new brass.

5R rifling ? They seem to hold copper far less. Bartliens are without a doubt, the finest barrel made. Every one, is a joy to set up and chamber.

[Malxwal]

The chamber I currently have fits 123gr bullets, anything else is encroaching on powder space. 

Would most likely stick with the 123 Scenars or similar, with the 123 ELDs in the absence of Amax (I still have 400 or so) or Nosler 120BT for deer. I have a fair stock of 129 ABLR too, they seem to fit well in the chamber, but haven't worked up a load for them.

I have to say, I like the characteristic of 47 whereby, as Baldie says, "that the 47 can be loaded with dog s**t".

 

 

 

 

[terryh]

Dave,

Concur with bullet weights and the 47, having good success with the Berger 130g OTM's. Switched to these from thew 123g Scanars and obtaining nice consistent velocities with N140 over a spread of charges. Velocities around 2800fps +/-

Re barrel makes, having good results with a 5 groove Benchmade, shot close to 300 rounds in a day at Orion a couple of weeks ago and accuracy was spot on to the end - some folks shot the rifle and said 'it was boring'. challenge of this shooting was hitting a steel at different distances, angles, wind directions first round - much fun!

But back to OP, if I was building from new rifle probably the Creed, if I had all the gear for the 47 then I'd stick with it.

T

ps, re. Benchrest not being accurate, it is comparable to drag racing, but if you want BR with marksmanship there is the 'for score' verity which looks interesting (but not sure if it's shot here?) thus:   http://www.6mmbr.com/30BR.html    Remember we are all shooter, each to thier own!

pss - WTF's going on with the colours???

[VarmLR]

As the others have said, as you have the dies etc for a 47, that's the one I'd stick with.  If starting from scratch, the CM has a little more versatility with bullet weights. I'm not sure what the match guys' experience is with accuracy comparisons between the two (has any direct testing been done by anyone?) but I'd be surprised if there were anything in it.  The whole point of CM development was to produce an inherently accurate and efficient case design, and it does seem to deliver good results.  I've been following the debate on 6.5 cal bullet weights and looking at one of the more popular bullets, the Scenar, which weight is best I think may be down to the barrel length.  Longer barrels may suit the heavier slightly higher BC bullet better where it can max on velocities.  I'm about to try the 123gr variant as I think that the difference in BC may be eclipsed in my 24" barrel with the higher velocities that I ought to be able to run with the 123gr over the 139...we'll see.  Common consensus from those who have tried it suggests that there's very little advantage to the 139 over the 123.