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Run out of windage


DaveK

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Right, the situation is that I've just bought a swaro for my .223 Howa. It has Weaver bases and Warne 30mm mounts. The scope it replaced was a WTC mounted with warnes with no problem but with this one I've run out of windage (just not enough right adjustment). I'm making the assumption that it's me that's done something wrong as there's supposed to be extra adjustment on the swaro's.

 

Because of the value of these scopes I'm touching nothing. It's going to see Steve Kershaw tomorrow but I'm interested to know what the problem might be. One suggestion (from Steve K) is that it could be too much powder coating on one side of the scope. Apparently 1 thou of coating = 1" at 100 yards. That sounds feasible but to run out of adjustment would require a few thou difference and I'd assume that Swraovski are better than that at quality control.

 

Is there something I'm missing here? Is the additional adjustment automatic ot do you need to take the turrets off and move them somehow? Unfortunately I've no instructions with it as it's 2nd hand (from a reliable source so it's not damaged).

 

Your opinions please?

 

Dave

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Try the simple things first like turning the rings round the opposite way or also, as I had to do for a mate last week , move the bases, we'd run out of windage and reversing the bases brought us to zero bang in the middle of the adjustment. Hope this helps.

Pete.

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Pete

 

You avnt got any mates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Funny, that's what he said about you :wub::lol:

 

Nice link to Swaro instructions moses. Thanks

 

Menial 1, is it true you're billy no mates? I'll be your friend (life coaching coming on) so how does that make you feel? :P:unsure:

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Crap Warne mounts is the answer thats why pretty well all other manufacturers have a horizontal split in their rings , not vertical, even tightening or slackening the screws will affect windage, such a design relies on a level of machining accuracy that we would not want to pay for and thye dont have it!. I have come across this issue before with a sako trg and fitting Sako mounts on their picatinny rail immediately fixed the problem.

The Swaro is aluminium bodied and anodised so there is no variation in coating thickness, the Novas were blued steel so again this wouldnt applyand you would be talking of a difference in coating of a lot more than 1-2 thou, Swarovski know how to make scopes and wouldnt have tolerated such a thing for five minutes.

Mine is one of the first of the first of the 6-24 PVs and is anodised. The WTC will have been on 1 inch mounts, so presumably you got new mounts? also the wtc is anodised and given a crackle finish so would be far more likely to have this problem with that.

I would try a set of Leupold or burris mounts and bases ( most places would lend you a set to try )and if the problem still exists you will have to send the scope to Swarovski who are very good and helpful and if there is nothing wrong will service and return it fr the price of the postage usually.

Dont start messing taking the turrets off, the scope comes with the turrets zeroed to place the reticle in the centre of the optics on on zero and it is not possible for you to do that yourself, the target turrets allow you to change the apparent zero but not the actual zero.

If this happened with the wtc as well you would suspect the rifle but I assume you had no trouble with that and didnt have to wind it all the way to one side?

The amount of adjustment for zeroing is fixed on all scopes and you can not increase it by altering the turret placement you can only offset it one side or the other which is bad as well, as you really want the reticle to be as ner to the centre of the optical plane as you can get it.

Redfox

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Two of my rifles have mounts fitted which are made by Ernst Apel GmbH. [ EAW Pivot Mounts.]

They have a lateral adjustment on the rear scope mount.

They are made of steel and have a 30 year guarantee period.

These mounts and their matching bases have a `swing-off` facility albeit something which I do not use.

 

HWH.

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Thanks for the replies chaps. is now sorted. The cheap Weaver copy bases were the problem. Not only was the rear base off centre with the front one but the rear one sat about a mm lower so the scope had no chance of getting anywhere near the optical centre. The Warne mounts are okay and will be used elsewhere on a Remy with quality Weaver bases. No detrement to the RFD I bought the cheap ones from, they weren't to know (and they did work effectively with the WTC I was using previously)

 

My Howa is now the proud owner of a set of windage adjustable leupold bases and a set of matching rings. Sound as a pound.

 

Stag1933, my Leupolds sound very much like your Apels. Good kit.

 

My thanks to Steve Kershaw for diagnosing and sorting it out without a huge dent in my bank balance. :D :D

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One of the reasons why I always use one piece bases - alignment problems are a non issue :lol:

 

Glad to hear your problem is resolved :D

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Guest northernchris

There arnt that many bad mounts out there nowadays i think the key to avoiding problems is fitting them correctly ie getting the orientation right,torqueing the fittings correctly and useing the CORRECT type of Loc-tite (if needed) after de-dreaseing the screw/bolt.

 

You hear people going on about Apel,s mounts coming loose,they only do if they have been fiited wrong in the 1st place.

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I dread guns coming in with leupold bases on. If they,ve been on any length of time, you can guarantee, the buggers will be siezed onto the action, via the screws. Lost count of the ones i,ve had to drill out and re tap.

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I seem to have run into a similar problem.......

I fitted a T8 to my CZ 527 and the scope is on max up when zero'd at 100 yds. There is obviously now lots of down adjustment on the meopta scope.

 

Could this be a poor scope mount issue as I didn't realise how near to the top I was previously but it was only half a turn on the elevation dial.

The mounts were secondhand so I don't know the make but the cross bolts are stamped with made in australia.

 

Anybody shed any light or opinion?

 

Anybody want to sell me a suitable set of 1" mounts, 50mm objective sporter weight barrel?

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Spot on Baldie, looked at some pics and found them straight away.

 

http://www.tasco.com.au/Products/tabid/59/...C%2cProductName

 

Right hand picture.

 

Can you shed any light on how I'm right at the top of the scope?

Everything looks fastened down right. Took it off and back on its the same.

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Check the claws on the mounts. This type of mount usually has two sizes of claw on each one, so you can turn them upside down for a wider/thinner dovetail.If you have one of each, it will affect your scope settings.

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Right

Before I started I set myself up a zeroing target on the wardrobe door as the rifle was zero'd so I would have a reference mark. Not having a collimator this was the best I could do. OK the parallax was a bit dodgy and the sight picture a bit blurred but it was only intended as a guide.

 

I stripped it all down and the claws are not interchangeable as the bolt has a sort of eccentric claw head, so they can only go one way.

The rear mount has a recoil pin but the front one only has a center pop where the hole position is?

 

With all the pieces on the table I started measuring and lo and behold the rear mount was 8 thou smaller than the front one measured from the bottom of the radius to the face that sits on the action.

 

A bit of accurate drilling and the pin now sits in the other mount.

 

Reassembled and using my target the scope is now about 3 1/2 turns lower, I think its 30 clicks per turn x 1cm clicks so obviously a long way.

 

This sounds a lot more like it obviously once I test fire it at the weekend I will know for sure.

 

Another case of dodgy mounts putting you a mile off. I have had these for a few years and never realised how near the top it was operating as it hasn't got target turrets.

 

Hope my findings may help others.

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You aren't exactly spoilt for choice with mounts for a cz buddy, unfortunatly.

I see it every week in the shop. There is still this phobia that people have, about spending £100-120 quid on a decent pair of mounts. the times i,ve seen people have a gun made, then strap a nightforce onto it with cheap rings ....

Ok, you have to cater for everyone,s budget, but no one is gonna make me believe that having spent £4000 on a combo, that the budget wouldn't stretch to a decent pair of rings.

We sell allsorts of cheap ones in the shop, mainly for the 25 yard gallery guns, and they are perfectly adequate....its when folk try and use a £14 pair of hawkes on a fullbore, i despair....

We also sell the warne,s......i hate the bastards, and will readily tell the customer why, but then they tend to think you are just trying to steer them to a decent pair of nightforce, or farrel etc.....you cant win sometimes.

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Dave has it right, when you think how much your nightforce or S&B or Swaro scope costs to clamp cheap crap like Warne or Hillver mounts on it that are going to crimp the tube and mark it to hell!!! it beggars belief, particularly the Hillvers have sharp ridges machined inside the ring, no it wont slip but the tube is damaged forever and properly fitting mounts dont need that.

The decent ones have enough bearing area to hold the scope and fit the tube closely so they dont actually need to be as tight as the poor ones to prevent movement!

As for screws jamming, they should be lightly oiled ( 3in1 oil or similar ) and tightened to the correct torque, not ratched up to the point of stripping or the hex/tox key starting to round off. In 99.9% of all fastener tightening the values quoted are for the fastener "lightly oiled" not dry, they then acheive the correct tightness and will not come undone unless the thread in the body/ or receiver is loose or damaged which is a separate issue. I have never needed to use locktite on any as that will give you real problems if you want to get them undone. There is a low strength "screw lock" available but it really isnt necessary, millions of screws/bolts/nuts are used every day with no locktite and no spring washers and the world does not fall apart when they are tightened properly, most makers will give you a value if you ask them.

Redfox

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Redfox I agree with your point but..........

 

out of interest how many people on here have, or have access to, an appropriately small enough torque wrench?

 

I bought one of the torqueleader devices ( as on the AI website) a few years ago and it is so easy and like redfox says you can have confidence in the thing not falling apart.

They are not cheap but how long will they last if looked after.

 

http://www.torqueleader.com/Product_Select...ng_Screwdrivers

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The variable ones are best but cost more, the pre set ones are cheaper but you need an analyser to set them.

There are cheaper ones than the Torqueleader which are one of the best ( I'm lucky and have one plus a couple of analysers ), it is surprising when you check how tight you are actually tightening things, usually way over what they should be!

 

Typically for a 4mm hex socket head screw at 90% yield it would be 2.918 Nm or 25 inlb in imperial and that would be tight!

Redfox

I can calculate based on fastener size and type and material where known.

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