FB Sharing of Private Data

[brown dog]

Oop.

UKV doesn't share your private interest in legal shooting sports or probable legal ownership of sporting firearms with anyone 

[ruger7717]

Would you, if they offered you £1,000,000?  

[brown dog]

20 hours ago, ruger7717 said:

Would you, if they offered you £1,000,000?  

That question's probably more a reflection of your moral compass than mine 

But... let's just scale it to get a measure of the temptation:

In 2016, FB made $40.7 billion.  

So... $1M represents about an offer of about 0.02% of income.

Not sure the average man in the street would lose both their moral compass and break the Law for an offer of 0.02% of their income?

 

[Kalahari]

That question is a bit like the story about Oscar Wilde and a titled lady.

OW: "Would you sleep with me for £10,000?"  ( a huge amount of money in those days)

TL: "yes"

OW: "Would you sleep with me for a shilling?"

TL: "No what sort of a person do you take me for?"

OW: "We have already established that, now we are just haggling about the price."

 

So I guess either you genuinely know right from wrong or you don't.

 

David.

[brown dog]

9 hours ago, Kalahari said:

That question is a bit like the story about Oscar Wilde and a titled lady.

OW: "Would you sleep with me for £10,000?"  ( a huge amount of money in those days)

TL: "yes"

OW: "Would you sleep with me for a shilling?"

TL: "No what sort of a person do you take me for?"

OW: "We have already established that, now we are just haggling about the price."

 

So I guess either you genuinely know right from wrong or you don't.

 

David.

  Great quote!

[Breacher]

Every man has his price ( not always monetary ) Any that say they dont are not being realistic.

[Kalahari]

Well, quite a lot of people's price has been higher than their lives, so I would argue with you over that.

 

David.

[Breacher]

10 hours ago, Kalahari said:

Well, quite a lot of people's price has been higher than their lives, so I would argue with you over that.

 

David.

That was not the point I was making. I know some die for their principles. 

We all have a moral compass. A list of things we would not do. A list of things "beyond the pale".

However - every one of us will do something which we would not normally do on moral grounds IF the appropriate motivation is there.

For some its money. For some its revenge. For some its country. For some its family. For some its religion. For some its war or conflict. For some its just andrenalin / moment of madness / uncontrollable reaction to a particular event Etc etc etc

Ones moral compass is fluid. It depends on circumstances and motivation. Unless one is perfect. None of us are.

 

Edit - The Soviets made a big study of the subject. In relation to "turning" individuals. They concluded it was always possible - you just had to figure out the right motivator for said individual.

 

[brown dog]

I think you may be confusing/conflating breaking point with moral compass. 

[VarmLR]

7 hours ago, brown dog said:

I think you may be confusing/conflating breaking point with moral compass. 

+1

Nothing would ever persuade me to do something which goes against my beliefs.  That is not to say that I've always stuck to speed limits or treated others all the time in a respectful manner etc etc. However, where I have done something wrong, I have always tried to make amends, and such occasions have rarely been in full knowledge of forethought, more reactionary or unthinking, so I have not fundamentally with deliberation acted against my beliefs. 

Human nature is like that, and we all have moments of weakness such is the human condition, but it's how we deal with it and learn from it that matters.  "Hypocrisy" I think is often a word used by those who deny this human condition and the ability to rise above things as we grow in maturity and wisdom.

Would I sell out personal data held by my company for £1m, £10m or £100m?  No.  Not in a thousand years.  Anyone in my book who sells out such things for monetary gain is dishonest and has no integrity.  Integrity doesn't have a price.  You either have it or you don't.

[Orka Akinse]

Integrity.........

What no man can give you nor take away

Unless you let him.......

[Breacher]

On 19/04/2018 at 8:43 AM, brown dog said:

I think you may be confusing/conflating breaking point with moral compass. 

I see what you mean - but no.

I know someone can be forced to deviate from their values by blackmail or coercion. That is not someone paying the other "his price" - thats coercion.

What I am talking about is incentive or motive.

The most common motive is purely financial. 

What I was referring to were the other incentives or motivators that can be used.

Further, its rather moot saying something like "Even if you offered me a million pounds, I would never......."

One cannot 100% say what they would or would not do in a given situation until they actually are faced with the situation. In my opinion the same goes for "the price" that every man has.

That is not to lessen the value of integrity - many have this and its to be commended. But very few of us with integrity have actually been offered ( genuinely offered ) life changing sums of money to sell it.

Of course another factor to throw in is - getting found out .....or not. For example if the incentive is offered and nobody will ever find out, that man is more likely to sell out.

 

Yet another is "the greater good". For example - murder would be a step too far for most moral compasses. However, many good men have taken a single life in cold blooded murder, not for financial gain but because they thought it was the right thing to do - murder one to save many more.

Or "honourable corruption" as it was once known in the Met Police. Officers who fitted up suspects, not for financial gain, not for promotion prospects but simply because they "knew" the individual was guilty but were unable to prove it and felt the "right" thing to do was ensure justice was done, albeit improperly.

In short - the whole matter is a grey area of what ifs. And its only speculation until you are actually made the offer...........

 

[brown dog]

Yup. I think we're tripping over language. The examples you give are, to me, someone deciding to do something even though their moral compass tells them it's wrong ie, the individual knows it's 'wrong' but chooses to override that instinct, for whatever reason of external motivation or coercion; and it's that tripping point - that will vary from individual to individual - that you're debating.

In contrast, as I would suspect would be the case with Lehman Brothers type individuals, or perhaps some asbergers type who sold his co-founder college buddies down the river, and will, it seems, do anything for money; their moral compass is simply not on the societal norm or is simply absent: The extreme example being a sociopath, who simply cannot tell right from wrong.

 

[Breacher]

True. Some individuals are hard wired to not even comprehend when their actions are outside what would be consideded decent. Have to agree on that !

[Reloader54]

"UKV,,,,, Connecting people"

[VarmLR]

16 hours ago, Breacher said:

True. Some individuals are hard wired to not even comprehend when their actions are outside what would be consideded decent. Have to agree on that !

Yep...I've met and had to deal with a few sociopaths.  My over-riding impression was that there was no comprehension or effort to comprehend involved.  They're hard-wired with a total lack of empathy and limited sense of responsibility.

[ruger7717]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 7:38 AM, brown dog said:

That question's probably more a reflection of your moral compass than mine 

But... let's just scale it to get a measure of the temptation:

In 2016, FB made $40.7 billion.  

So... $1M represents about an offer of about 0.02% of income.

Not sure the average man in the street would lose both their moral compass and break the Law for an offer of 0.02% of their income?

 

Well thank you old boy, I don't think anyone has ever insulted me so politely!

I'm sorry Brown dog the question wasn't aimed directly at yourself!...but as for you questioning my moral compass, ill let you in to a few things about myself!..

I have direct debits going out to London air Ambulance, NSPCC, Wateraid & Battersea dogs home.....combined not that much about £120 a month..oh and by the way I sponsored the RBL Shoots that JohnMH organized to the tune of £2000 all out of my own pocket ...And I'm just an old country boy that works hard for my family, but if I can help, I will.

It was just a question that's all,   

[gunner]

What a generous kind chap you are !