chaz Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 Hi folks, Out of interest i had a thought. How about using a 40 grain V-Max head, in my .223 Rem and dropping the powder to give me around 2300-2500 fps. Not for any other reason, than for the hell of it. I already have what i need in my own stock items, so why not give it a try? If nothing else but to see how accuracy and noise levels are?? I would be using my Tikka T3, 1 in 8 twist. And using Viht N133 powder, and my 40 grain V-Max heads, seated to the depth of at least the width of the bullets... I will use what very little data my 2nd Edition Lee Reloading Manual will give me... The items used like the Viht N133 and 40 grain V-Max heads, are what i already have available in my own stock items.. Firstly, my manual did give details about using N133 and 40 grain bullets. But the starting velocity was around 3400 fps. (I've not got the manual to hand at the moment though, for specific data) I decided to divide the stated lowest velocity by the amount of grains of powder. This gave me around 142 fps per grain of powder. I say around, as even the manuals can't/don't accurately give 100% details of fps due to obvious differences in rifles. Is that a safe mathematical equation to use??.... Apologies if that's a dumb question. But i'd rather ask a dumb question, than put myself, and maybe others that may want to try this at risk... I'm trying it just out of interest, and seeing how quiet it would be in 'real world terms', but still be able to take out vermin at around 100 to 150 yards....Maybe... Before anyone asks, 'But why'. It's because i want to, (if it's safe enough.) It's as simple as that..... I could buy slower burning powder listed in my manual, but i don't want to. As i have already stated i have the items already...If it is safe enough to try. Hence my post... I'd like to try 4 shot groups, between 16 and 18 grains in half grain increments of Viht N133. This will give me around/between 2343 fps and 2556. And give me some idea of the potential accuracy with more load testing, in smaller increments. Obviously safety is the key factor here, hence my post, asking for constructive advice. Firstly i'd obviously double check the round has left the barrel, and secondly a hole in the target to prove this. And if needs be, removing the bolt between shots and looking through the bore to be absolutely sure the barrel is clear!!. Although i presume at around the lower end of say 2200 fps there shouldn't be a problem?? Other than this, can anyone give me any other constructive advice, whether that be safety advice, or anything else?? Cheers Chaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banus02 Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 i have used trail boss in 223rem for subsonic loads and if i use a slightly higher load i get super sonic at 2200fps.even with varmeggedon bullets get no expansion with subsonic but expansion at 2200fps and resonable accuracy.with trailboss i can go safely from 800fps to 2200fps.could go higher. but i was working down.hodgdon has a good load section on this. n133 is too fast to try reducing load below minimum listed and may be dangerous ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehole Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 I use Trail Boss and the 50g Blitzking in my 223 for 1750 fps,,,,,,excellent performance both in accuracy and effectiveness on quarry.Sounds very much like an HMR report and sweet to shoot.Not tried the 40g bullets but sure they would work just as well.With Trail Boss its a good case filler and like Banus says you can safely experiment in a wide velocity window.I,m sure there is an alternative to TB as I believe its one of the powders that has been pulled from sale but if you can source one snap it up,,its probably the best for this purpose.Not a recommendation of course but I,m using 7 grains of TB under the 50g bullet and I,m thinking this load with a 40g bullet may get you toward 2000 fps.Lots on the net regading TB but you must be VERY careful with trickling up consistent and safe loads with these types of powder,,,,,,O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 Thanks both. I've never tried working a load down before, it's clearly a whole new ball game... banus02, why would reducing the minimum load of N133 be dangerous? Could you explain? Over pressure?? I only used N133 as it's what i already have, and it's listed in my reloading manual, so i knew the minimum load for the 40 V-Max. But i also have N135 and N150. But both are not even listed in my reloading manual, hence not using them, as i didn't have any data on what the minimum load was. Cheers. Chaz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palo Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 Some powders can be dangerous if reduced below recommend starting loads. Hodgdon say that reduced loads of h4895 can be used safely in any cartridge bullet combo that is listed in their data. They say to start at 60% of the listed max load and work up from there. I didn' try it yet myself but Im going to in my 204 when the weather gets a bit warmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 26 minutes ago, palo said: Some powders can be dangerous if reduced below recommend starting loads. Hodgdon say that reduced loads of h4895 can be used safely in any cartridge bullet combo that is listed in their data. They say to start at 60% of the listed max load and work up from there. I didn' try it yet myself but Im going to in my 204 when the weather gets a bit warmer. Thanks for the reply Palo. I'm trying to get some info on why it is dangerous to use charges below the minimum stated. I'm after some clarification. As at present i have already made up some rounds in groups of 4, but i can't bring myself to shoot them due to being told it could be dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palo Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 You would need to get onto Laurie on here for the right answer. I did read before somewhere that when a case has a reduced amount of powder in it the flash from the primer can ignite the powder all at once which would increase pressure significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 I thought if anything it may be pressure. Cheers Palo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banus02 Posted March 2, 2018 Report Share Posted March 2, 2018 good morning chaz,below minimum charge weight you can get flash over caused as said bY the primer igniting the powder instantly ,i e detonation,massive pressure spike.can destroy you rifle/face/fingers/eye sight.DONT LOAD BELOW MINIMUM! USE THE CORRECT POWDER TO DOWN LOAD.be carefull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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