1000 yard recommendations

[meles meles]

On Friday we shot 1,000 yards at Bisley (In a howlin' gale, admittedly) and got severely trounced by a ooman using a Dolphin in .284" Winchester with a 30" Bartlein barrel, Jewel trigger, Nesika action and an 8-80x56 March scope. 

We were using a Remington 700 chambered in 7mm Rem Mag in an AICS stock and with a Zeiss 4-12x42 scope. That combination has served us superbly at 600 yards but didn't quite cut it at 1,000 - mainly because we ran out of elevation adjustment on the scope to cope with the aforementioned howlin' gale. Our rounds are SMK 175 gn HPBT over 64.3 gns of Viht N560 - and they are superb at 600 yards.

Now, do we:

• Simply buy a 20 MoA rail and carry on ?
• Upgrade our scope, and if so, to what ? (Our budget is more Athlon than March)
• Ask Baldie to fettle the Rem 700 ?
• Have the 700 rebarrelled to something else, and if so, what ?
• Keep the Rem 700 as our 600 yard rifle and get a long range barrel for our DTA rifle? If so, in what calibre?

[gbal]

How much  elevation do you think the 'howlin' wind caused....wind drift,yes...and there will be some elevation too- but there are several factors that differentiate  the gear too......would the  vertical component of a cross wind be  the big factor-and if so,how could  your 7 Rem Mag cope  less well?The AICS stock  is probably a lot less important than the 284 win  ballistics-which we don't know.....and March 8-80 scope is way  better for the application,as is the Nesika action and probably the barrel-you don't give your rifle specs on these important factors. Maybe the shooter  read the wind better-that can't be bought,but the superior equipment otherwise can be duplicated,maybe even improved on. Maybe a howlin wind  isn't  the best  test... and  a one off is always a limited  reason to throw money at a perceived shortcoming. Consider,It might be a Shehane next time.

gbal

[meles meles]

Our rifle was a Remington 700 Varmint, pretty much 'off the shelf' bar the AICS stock. The wind was gusting at 37 mph, almost head on, and the temperature was around 0 Celsius, thus both rifles required a lot of elevation adjustment to cope. On paper at least, .284 and 7 Rem Mag are pretty similar: both kick out 175gn SMK at around 2,700 fps on a nice spring day..

We calculated the wind corrections jointly, and in an effort to rule out shooter error, we shot three rounds with the Dolphin and scored 3 V bulls...

[Catch-22]

For what it's worth, my opinion is you already have a flexible/configurable system in the DTA. Use the money you'd otherwise spend on doing up the Rem700 and put it into a new barrel for the DTA. 

Im of the opinion that one platform which you can learn to master (same chassis/stock, same scope, same trigger, same ergonomics and muscle memory) helps contribute to becoming a better shooter as it eliminates lots of variables when switching back and forth between different setups.

in the long run it's cheaper too, as you don't need to buy multiple scopes, triggers, bipods etc etc. Use the money you then have to upgrade the equipment you already have, cheaper than buying whole new equipment of equal quality.

In terms of calibre, a .284win sounds good. Seems to be the main calibre to beat at the moment at 1000m. Much debate whether straight .284 or Shehane - doesn't seem to be much in it between the two to me, but that's your call.

[triggersqueezer]

new scope every time and i can't recomend vortex golden eagle enough . shooting 1000 on 12x you will think your steady when your not etc

[ruger7717]

As Triggersqueezer says!..you have a rifle more then capable its the glass that's letting you down, plenty of 8-32x56 NXSs on the market... 

[No i deer]

I agree with triggersqueezer.12 mag is nowhere near enough to be shooting accurately at 1000yds.

 

[No i deer]

3 minutes ago, No i deer said:

I agree with triggersqueezer.12 mag is nowhere near enough to be shooting accurately at 1000yds.I use 32 mag sightrons and a 25 mag MK4 Leupold

I would of thought the 7mm rem mag had more umph than the 284 depending on the 7rm barrel length.its probably using 8 to 10grs more powder.

Rebarrel it in 7mm saum or 7mm wsm as you have a magnum bolt face.am not 100 percent sure if the bolt face is big enough though

 

[meles meles]

What do 7mm SAUM or WSM offer that the 7mm Rem Mag doesn't ?

[ruger7717]

2 minutes ago, meles meles said:

What do 7mm SAUM or WSM offer that the 7mm Rem Mag doesn't ?

Nowt at 1000!

[meles meles]

So, it seems a 20 MoA rail and a new scope are the way forward. We're thinking of either the Athlon Argos BTR 8-34×56 FFP  or perhaps the Meopta 6-18x50 currently advertised on the classified forum here. Both are around the same price, and we have several fixed magnification Meopta scopes  on our other rifles so we appreciate their optical quality but is x18 enough magnification for 1000 yard shooting? It's not that much of a step up from our existing Zeiss 12x scope.  The Athlon is an unknown quantity to us but has almost twice the magnification, a good specification on paper and gets good reviews on the net. Anyone here used one?

[No i deer]

The 7mm rem mag probably has the edge on the 7mm wsm power wise.not sure on accuracy wise.there must be reasons there not used in f class etc.

Get all the magnification you can and the 20 moa rail will give you the extra elevation.

Ive only got optilock rings on my 284 and have elevation to spare on the sightron at 1000yds.not sure how much offhand.

[duey]

Go with the 20 MOA rail but make sure the alternative scopes you are looking at have sufficient elevation, more than the Zeiss that is, if they don't then stick with the Zeiss 

 

last year I was shooting next to a guy using an Athlon scope( not sure of model, mag etc ) shooting 300 winmag and he ran out of elevation at 1000yds and was struggling and gave up completely when we moved to 1200yds  and I'm sure he had a 20 MOA rail 

[meles meles]

Perhaps a pertinent question is "How much elevation adjustment is required in a scope for 1000 yard shooting ?'

[No i deer]

Depends on the calibre obviously but a 7mm 175gr bullet doing around 3000fps from your 7 rem mag I would guess 23 to 24 moa on warmer days

[gbal]

7rem mag  175g BC .428 @2860fps 200 zero;Fed/Rem/Win hunting bullets/SAAMI loads,all quote 1000y drop of 354 inches.

Just for comparison,175g BC .519 Nosler @2800fps,drop at 1000y is 318 inches.

With a 100y zero,drop would be a bit more,of course.Ditto lower BC or MV.

Norma 150g  BC .537 @3166 200y zero comes in  234 inches lowat 1000y

Fed 150g SGK BC .435 @3110fps is 286inches low at 1000y.

7STW  140  Nos BT  BC .485  @3300fps...200zero....at 1000y is 228 inches low 7STW 160 Sierra BT BC .622 @3250.......1000y 202 inches low

Lazzeroni 7MM 140g Nos Part BC.560 @ 3750fps ........1000y 168 inches low.

7RSAUM   160g Nos Part BC .475 @2850 ..327";160gBC.531 @2850  ...300"

gbal

[No i deer]

I had a look at the nosler reloading data and there max load on N560 was 60grs and that launched the 175gr bullet about 2970fps from a 24 inch tube so your 64gr load must be shifting 

[Ronin]

Meles

 

personally, id put a 20 MOA rail on and try that.

 

If you are not planning on competing and budget is limited then this should get you to 1k without having to resort to the lower subtensions in the scope.

 

When I had a 7mm magnum I recall my elevation was 19.5 - 21 moa at 1k depending on range location and barometrics.

 

Your 7mm Rem Mag will push the bullet at similar velocities to most other magnums, but one would always choose a load on accuracy not velocity.....

You may find the RM produces a consistant accuracy node at a lower velocity than a WSM or SAUM or NM

 

If budget allows, you could change the scope without changing the rail, but you need to consider how much elevation is available in the scope AFTER you have zeroed. 

A good alternative to what you have considered already would be the Nightforce 8-32 NXS with I think 60 MOA vertical ajustment.

 

They come up secondhand fairly often.

 

Some have said 12 power isnt enough for 1k, having shot on field firing ranges out to a mile with a 10 power PM11 on my 338, Id argue that.

[No i deer]

Depends on the size of the target your aiming at.a fig11 and 1800yds would be ok on 12 mag.shooting at a 0.5 moa vbull at 1000yds would be more judging than aiming as your reticle will probaly block out the target.

[Ronin]

Indeed, however several years ago a group of us visited a range in Wales - one of the challenges were standard clays laid out at 1k, which was achievable with the 10 power scope.

 

 

Not Ideal, I know, but if the OP just wants to practice at that distance and budget tight, then all I am saying is its achievable.

[topscots1]

Change the scope, night force,vortex will both get you out there with good quality glass and the elevation you need. Dependant on the zeiss you have you may be able to work it in to a trade deal.

[Andy Welch]

What barrels have you already got for the DTA?

 

Andy

[VarmLR]

If it's a one off, why change anything and just buy a rail for when you need it?  If you intend to shoot more often at 1000yds and even compete, then I'd fit a used NSX 5.5-22 x 56 or 8-32 x 56.  Both will have enough elevational adjustment without a rail, as will something like a Bushnell DMR for half the price.

Use the barrel life you have instead of throwing money away on another to get proficient at 1000 before rebarrelling unless you fancy a change to something else and want a more efficient LR calibre.  Perhaps in which case look at something in 6.5mm or 7mm non-magnum.

[meles meles]

For the DTA we have barrels in .308 and .243, neither of which we consider suitable for 1000 yard shooting as they are the covert models, i.e. 16" barrels. If we added a  new barrel we'd look at either 6.5x55 Norsqueagian or 7mm Rem Mag. 

We consider the advice to get a 20 MoA rail and carry on to be good. The x12 magnification on the Zeiss seemed fine to us at 1000 yards, it was just lack of elevation adjustment that was the issue, much exacerbated by the almost head on howlin' gale (gusting to 37 mph according to the weather thingummy at Bisley) and the added issue of temperatures being sub-zero and thus robbing us of a few more tens of fps at the muzzle.

Generally, we prefer to spend our pennies on ammunition and practice rather than Gucci kit but have to confess the Dolphin / March combination was very easy to shoot well.

[Andy Welch]

I use a DTA SRS with a 6.5x47 barrel (26") and it very happily does 1000 yds at Bisley and 1300 yards at Orion.  Any longer barrel will work very well with your covert model.

Andy

PS if you want to sell the covert give me a shout.