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VarmLR

Reload Swiss RS62: Actual V's QL for 6.5 Creedmoor

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Well I got out today for an hour and shot a few groups.  Working on my technique, (this is my first full bore target rifle).  The best two groups were both 44 gn, one virgin brass one once fired.  both are 10 shot groups, ES and SD were disappointing,

Virgin brass 44gn 
MIN 2693
MAX 2748
AVE 2715  
SD 14
ES 55


Once fired Brass 44 gn
MIN 2695
MAX 2738
AVE 2715
SD 12
ES 43

The Black stickers in the center are 10mm, the groups were shot at 100 Yds.

Pretty happy so far I'm off to the 600 Yd range on Saturday.  I'm Sure the ES will cause me some problems at that range.

Tom

group2.jpg

group1.jpg

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Good groups but you'll want to firm up ES/SD if stretching legs on distance.  Perhaps try different primers?  I had very reasonable results with Murom Magnum KVB-223M (avoid the standard ones...cup thickness is insufficient).  Remington 7.5s or BR4s also worth a shout.

Thinking a little more on it, you still don't have too many rounds down that new barrel.  My experience with my own TAC was that it took between 300 and 400 rounds before things started getting more consistent.  Also, are you batching your brass and what is your procedure for brass prep?

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Your spot on with the ES/SD.  Currently I haven't batched brass (I don't have an accurate digital scale and can't face weighing each one on a balance beam yet).

Brass is deprimed using Redding universal deprimer with small pin, wet tumbled in SS media, Annealed using a 'Reloader Brass annealer' Body resized to bump the shoulder 1 to 1.5 thou, Trimmed and chamfered with Lee quick trim ( currently only chamfering as cases are still below SAAMI max) Then Neck sized using Lee collet die (with turned down depriming pin). This give 2 thou of tension.  Bullets are seated with Redding Comp seating die to 30 off the lands. Charges are weighed on RCBS M500 scale. Primers are seated with Sinclair hand tool.

Tom

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Your regime sounds fine, although it might pay to check case capacities in case you have some that are throwing ES out;  I'd also be tempted to batch by OA case length. I try and keep mine all within the range 1.906 o 1.910 after FL sizing.  If you've done all of that and are confident that charges are accurate, then swapping out primers would seem the next logical step.

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I was thinking I may have to batch the brass, and I think I'll try the Murom KVB-223M primers if I can find any in this neck of the woods.  Anyone know of a stockist in the South West?

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#

thanks, but thats still a 5 hour round trip from where I am. and Hazardous delivery charges are extortionate 

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 In reply to the OP's original entry , I noted a big difference in velocity and pressure signs between my 1st and 2nd tubs of RS62 .

 The same charge weight in my 243 using 87grain Vmax saw a drop in average velocity of 187 fps using the second tub . ( Quite clearly not of the same batch , different containers and a year between purchase. ) This equated to 0.1 grains equalling 31 fps , the velocity confirmed by my chronograph appeared quite linear. I'm sure others must have noticed this !

 I'm not a QL user myself  , but is it possible that QL's data was based on the earlier production runs ?

 

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I tried RS62 today for the first time in my .260 with the 139gr Scenar and was surprised by the velocity. 

Temp 75F / DA 1385
Three shot average velocity FPS:
44.5gr  2948 SD 11
45.0gr  2978 SD 9 

I wasn’t expecting it to be nearly this fast...should I have been at these loads / is this typical for RS62 ??

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Compressed loads?  Seems like quite a high charge.  I know that 260 rem has a little more case capacity than Creedmoor but effective case capacity is similar as the bullets tend to be seated deeper.  At 44.6gr I'm into quite compressed loads with the Creedmoor.  I'd expect 2800fps at between 42,5 and 43gr RS62 in the CM with large primer brass so not at all surprised that you're getting those velocities...seems like quite high pressure loadings? If so, I'd be backing right off!

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1 hour ago, VarmLR said:

Compressed loads?  Seems like quite a high charge.  I know that 260 rem has a little more case capacity than Creedmoor but effective case capacity is similar as the bullets tend to be seated deeper.  At 44.6gr I'm into quite compressed loads with the Creedmoor.  I'd expect 2800fps at between 42,5 and 43gr RS62 in the CM with large primer brass so not at all surprised that you're getting those velocities...seems like quite high pressure loadings? If so, I'd be backing right off!

Don’t think so. Def no crunch on bullet seating and I load them pretty long ie over 2.90” OAL. 

I was just testing a couple of loads and will be backing down. Thx

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Large primer brass?  Not sure on QL predictions for the 260...but sounds like they could be fairly hot loads given the velocities. 

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Large primer. Tried some new loads. Incredibly there was no pressure signs. 

44.5 2955

44.6 2964

44.7 2951

44.8 2969

44.9 2976

45.0 2978

45.1 2994

45.2 2989

45.3 2992

45.4 3013

45.5 3004

I’m backing down to a 2800 FPS load but interesting to see. 

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I did some load testing this weekend using RS62 here's the velocities - measured using a Labradar.

6.5 creedmoor, 24" barrel, Lapua small primer brass full length resized 3rd firing, CCI SR magnum primers (450's), Lapua Scenar 139gr bullet

Accuracy nodes were at 43.0gr and 44.4gr

Average of 5 shot string
42.8gr - 2684fps
43.0gr - 2703fps
43.2gr - 2720fps
43.4gr - 2727fps
43.6gr - 2748fps
43.8gr - 2765fps
44.0gr - 2781fps
44.2gr - 2785fps
44.4gr - 2796fps
44.6gr - 2809fps

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Your velocities are much greater than I  am getting with the same load but using different primers. Using the same bulet, I'm getting 2700fps with a 43.9gr load (24" barrel, Lapua SRP brass, KVB-223M primers).  My accuracy nodes were 43.4 & 43.9gr.

It does make me wonder about batch variation...that or my chrony is under-cooking the figures!  (Digital pro-chrony....all velocities measured about 2.5m in front of the muzzle).

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after doing a work up I just fired 20 rounds of the most accurate group

cci 250 , Hornady brass 2nd firing FLS,  44.3gr (compressed) , rs62, 2.810oal , no pressure signs whatsoever  , 140gr eldm, consistently shooting .3moa  24” tikka tac 

2660 clean cold barrel 

2702. 2695.  2673.  2672.  2672.  2759.  2692.  2691.  2662.  2715.  2738.  2686.  2688.  2730.  2732.  2718.  2665.  2691.  2686.  

Es 99. Sd 27.6 magneto speed 

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2 hours ago, Steve steve said:

after doing a work up I just fired 20 rounds of the most accurate group

cci 250 , Hornady brass 2nd firing FLS,  44.3gr (compressed) , rs62, 2.810oal , no pressure signs whatsoever  , 140gr eldm, consistently shooting .3moa  24” tikka tac 

2660 clean cold barrel 

2702. 2695.  2673.  2672.  2672.  2759.  2692.  2691.  2662.  2715.  2738.  2686.  2688.  2730.  2732.  2718.  2665.  2691.  2686.  

Es 99. Sd 27.6 magneto speed 

So you are consistently getting 0.3 MOA with an ES OF 99 and SD of 28 !!! You aren’t going to be anywhere near 0.3 MOA at distance. 

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51 minutes ago, TJC said:

So you are consistently getting 0.3 MOA with an ES OF 99 and SD of 28 !!! You aren’t going to be anywhere near 0.3 MOA at distance. 

Yes I obviously realise that, I shot the last 15 of the above 20 shots at a plate at 512 yards, group was around 5 inches, the first 5 shots were 100yrds 0.3moa, the point of my original post is to highlight the fact that all that glitters isn’t always gold ! 

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How are you guys supporting the rifle, bipod and butt bag, or F-open type rigs?

Pete

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46 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

How are you guys supporting the rifle, bipod and butt bag, or F-open type rigs?

Pete

Front bag for me. 

However if I’m at my local club I tend to put a cheap front pod on just to hold my rifle while there is a ceasefire / target change if that makes sense. 

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Using a Sinclair F-Class front bipod and no back rest for me, as I wanted to replicate loads fired in the field.  Fired about 600 rounds from this barrel and it's settled in nicely but my SD/ES has started opening up from where it was with earlier loads, so need now to re-establish an accuracy node.  Reasons may be lands going back a little or powder/primer batch variation, but whatever they are, my SD is now around 15 and ES has opened up considerably to close on 30, or double what they were for the same load. Brass batch is now 5 fired but careful attention to prep observed and FL sized every time.

 

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