Gun Crime on the UP

[baldie]

8 hours ago, Shootist said:

Amazing things happen sometimes. If you read the case report on the White Farm Murders, you will read that at one time in the investigation by the police suggested that Sheila Caffell had shot herself twice in the head then removed the silencer from the .22 rifle, hid it in the kitchen before returning to bed and dying. She was not prosecuted. However, Jeremy Bamber was eventually convicted of the murders in the Farmhouse.

http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html

For those with sufficient attention span, the appeal notes in the link above describe at length the crime, the police 'investigation', subsequent events, conviction of Bamber, and his unsuccessful appeal.

 A chap who owned a range in the village where I live, I believe, submitted expert witness evidence in that trial, which contradicted the police.

He lost his range, his house, his wife, and went to prison for several years after "irregularities" were "found" at the range.

He successfully sued the police for wrongful conviction on his release, and his certificate and RFD had to be re instated.

It ruined his life. The Chap bounced back though, and opened up the Phoenix range in Barnsley.

There is an old yorkshire saying....

" keep poking the bull....and you will feel its horns up your arse "  

[Shootist]

1 hour ago, maximus otter said:

Not as implausible as you might think. l have read an authoritative account of a man who left his house, went to a bus shelter and shot himself through the roof of his mouth with a .455 Webley. The bullet exited his skull, and the police later found “stalactites” of brain tissue hanging from the bus shelter roof.

He then walked home, spoke to a servant and walked upstairs to his bedroom, where he lay down on his bed and died.

maximus otter

It is most certainly implausible. Not, I grant, impossible, but certainly I would know which way to bet on such events. But that is not the only evidence in the case. The case report is certainly worth a read in spite of it's length. In fact because of it's length which in turn gives great detail. I merely mentioned the case in response to another post that Is suspect may have been made in humour.

[Shootist]

1 hour ago, baldie said:

 A chap who owned a range in the village where I live, I believe, submitted expert witness evidence in that trial, which contradicted the police.

He lost his range, his house, his wife, and went to prison for several years after "irregularities" were "found" at the range.

He successfully sued the police for wrongful conviction on his release, and his certificate and RFD had to be re instated.

It ruined his life. The Chap bounced back though, and opened up the Phoenix range in Barnsley.

There is an old yorkshire saying....

" keep poking the bull....and you will feel its horns up your arse "  

I normally express some doubts about police persecution of people in certain circumstances, but not when it comes to firearms issues. The petty vindictiveness of the police, when matched with their incompetence, ignorance of the law, and 'wesayso' arrogance is self evident.

Out of curiosity, have you any links to media reports on the unfortunate gentleman's case. I would be most interested in reading up on it.

In response to the old Yorkshire saying I would say "Keep poking t' bull. Thahs t' one wi' an opposable thumb and t' booger needs poking to remind 'im 'he's not, gaffer."

[Vortex]

So does everyone think that suicide shouldn’t be included in the stats that are used to bolster gun crime stats, if they are that is. 

 

[Chanonry]

Conspiracy theories are always fun but this is just a performance indicator to save them doing unnecessary analysis if there isn't a problem.  

Easy to see someone a long time ago deciding that it would be good to measure gun crime statistics. Once they start to measure something then they are very reluctant to change the definition as you lose the validity of the trend. So they stick with it even if it doesn't quite measure the precise issue, but it will attract attention if there is a big shift and then get some more analysis.

It is pretty obvious from there pronouncements that the Home Office understands the issue is with illegally imported guns. So looks to me like the crude metric told them something was happening and they went away did some analysis and got to the root cause. What's the problem with that.

[Roy W]

There are lies, damn lies and statistics. 'Gun Crime' includes air guns, replicas, bb guns, imitations, de-acts, toys, in fact anything that resembles a firearm in the slightest!

Believe Police/Govt stats? errrrrr No

 

[Grum87]

It had been suggested elsewhere that when Joe Bloggs the FAC holder rings his local force to tell them he'll be going out lamping in such and such a location at such and such a time it is recorded as an incident by the operators. I don't think the reasoning was malicious, but so that if  A. N. Other the dogwalker is out emptying the dog in such and such a location and such and such a time and hears a gunshot, and reports it to the police, the operator could search the system to see if there are any on-going or previously reported incidents in the area, and tie the two reports up, without the need for an armed response in situations like this. The downshot is that there's a firearms incident recorded on the system.

 

I'd love to think it's made up, but I could sadly believe it.

 

And the above post is correct. Anything that resembles a gun used in a crime to frighten or intimidate or give even the slightest hint of a gun is a firearm in the eyes of the law. That would include your hand in your pocket pointing two fingers maliciously at the cashier as you bellow 'this is a stick up!'.....

 

[Artiglio]

If you look at table F8 as referenced in Orka Akinses post Thursday, the figures make interesting reading, over the periods shown, rifles have accounted for around 1% of offences and shotguns around 8% even if you pro rata the figures for unidentified firearms then these figures don't jump appreciably.

This is before the figures are questioned as to the types of offences involved , the harm caused and as to whether the firearms involved were legally held. This table alone shows where the issues relating to firearms lie and the table should form part of any correspondence any of us may have in respect of consultations and representations to mp's etc.

 

 

[maximus otter]

 

On 1/27/2018 at 8:45 AM, Shootist said:

Out of curiosity, have you any links to media reports on the unfortunate gentleman's case. I would be most interested in reading up on it.

It was in a book. I'm pretty sure it was either Colin Greenwood's Firearms Control or Josserand and Stephenson's Pistols, Revolvers and Ammunition.

maximus otter